Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Force of Nature or Nurture?
Phillip Dampier:
--- Quote from: wayne1932 on February 25, 2006, 12:20:18 pm ---But I find that I just tingle when I think of Heath or Jake. What does that make me--I'm old enough to be their grandfather ? Could be just wishing I was younger and could live some of my life over again. But I grew up in that era, so I would have probably made the same choices.
--- End quote ---
I think anyone who can be comfortable with their sexuality and have a sense of compassion will feel deeply for Jack and Ennis. It's a time-tested love story, just told with a different twist. For people who have been in love and remember those first encounters together, BBM reminds them of that energy and the passion. What is interesting about this story, apart from the conventional Hollywood romance method, is that there is no support network for either Jack or Ennis. No catty "best friend" role to serve as comic relief and the eye rolling encourager. In fact, they have NO ONE at all but each other. In fact, it almost seems they have no friends either, excepting perhaps Jack's new found Texas friend that we see very little of in the film. It adds to the isolation which seems to be a theme of this film anyway.
I am very interested in the entire "era" and "time" factor and how it comes into play, especially because I wasn't born until 1967 and my only recollections started with the 1970s. Everything I have learned about time prior to that has come from television shows, and I have no clue whether that represents reality or not. I think I'll start a new thread on that point.
strazeme:
Most gays would have to agree, being gay isn't the easiest way to go. We all grew up in a straight world usually with almost no support or understanding. Why would we go down the gay path when straight is so much easier? With all the name calling, intimidation and threats, possible rejection by family, why would anyone choose the more difficult path? It makes no sense that anyone would choose to be gay. And even though I've been married, I don't accept bi-sexuality. Granted, there are cetain times, certain circumstances where many people could go either way. But over a period of time, there's only one way where you put your heart, your passion ... and the other is just second best. So if being gay is innate, I don't believe that anything in your upbringing has anything to do with it..Very few of us had anything so harsh as Ennis's tire-iron episode, but most of us had all kinds of anti-gay influences in our early lives.... with pervasive expectations to be straight. If there were certain parents who were experts at turing their children gay, why is there seldom more tha one in a family? Seems like I've seen other studies tracking identical twins who were raised apart, has anyone ever checked out the gay factor is such situations? Would be interesting.
BBMGrandma:
Dear Straz....
Ironically enough....just last night was a most interesting program on TV...about JUST that.
Twins....two boys...one gay...one straight!! They're grown now....young adults and are OPEN about their differences and love each other...".JUST the way they are..." as they both stated. I can't go into the research that is being done. I don't have the grasp on all the medical terms they referred to. It's a VERY ongoing study and lot's is being discovered about the influence...IN the womb....that predisposes one to homosexuality. Another set of twins....fraternal....about 9 years old or so. When asked of one twin....how he felt about himself....he said...<in sweet innocent child talk> I have the wrong body....I want to be a girl!! He also added that he was REALLY happy. The two of them were SOO sweet and innocent.
Rayn:
--- Quote from: Phillip on February 10, 2006, 03:56:02 am ---One of the many things about this film that are being debated is the question of whether or not Jack and Ennis were actually gay.....
How do you feel about the characters' sexuality and do you believe the movie's sexual encounter was more of a physical/sexual fulfillment or an emotional one? Further, is this something you've had to encounter yourself.
--- End quote ---
Are Jack and Ennis gay? When they're alone together they are! Are they hetrosexual? When they're having sex with women they are! Recall that both men had sex with women other than their wives. Are they Bi-sexual? When each is not with anyone, probably, yeah, but I would imagine at such times they each have sexual memories of each other and of women too! Logical. So, when they are remembering having sex with each other are they gay and when they recall having sex with a woman are they hetro? You see how funny and down right useless this can get?!
But eureka! I have come to the concluse that Jack and Ennis are Sexual Beings with a human need for an emotion bond with each other, and to a lesser extent, with the women they bed as well. The essential aspect of their relationship is an intense emotional connection that expresses itself in affection and sex. Isn't that Love?
Love is a mystery that sometimes moves us beyond genders. That's what the heart of the movie is about, I think, don't you? Doesn't anyone else out there think so? Just wondering... and kicking the idea around for fun.
Rayn
PS: Yes, this something I have encoutered and experienced myself too.
ednbarby:
All excellent points. I agree with much of what's been said here.
I think sexuality is absolutely innate. Our upbringing may encourage or discourage our leanings (or try to), but a leopard can't change his spots. I'm very much into the science of all things. I think - I know, actually - that each of us is as unique as a snowflake. Even identical twins, as studies have found, don't have the exact same chemical make-up. Just sharing DNA can't be the whole picture, otherwise they would not have distinct personalities. And I agree with Kinsey's findings - I think all things can be described on a scale or spectrum - nothing is "either, or."
That said, I think Ennis and Jack are predominantly gay, Ennis moreso than Jack. Some straight people I know who've seen the movie seem to have a problem with that - they look at it as the love between these two men transcending their sexuality. I don't think that's possible - transcending one's own sexuality, I mean. It's as much a part of what makes us who we are as the color of our eyes. I think their love transcends their own homophobia and fears - the tragedy is that Ennis' place in society and time and his own fear doesn't allow him to express it openly - but not their sexuality. If you physically want a member of your sex, you are gay or bisexual. There are women in my life who I feel I love fiercely. I'd lay down my life for a couple of them. But I don't want them sexually. I don't feel that pull when I look at them or laugh with them or cry with them or hug them. There are men in my life I can't stand on an emotional level, but who make me feel that pull every time I see them.
We can't help who we love. And we can't help who we're sexually attracted to. When both of those things come together, and passionately, the effects of repressing that emotion are devastating. That's what this movie says to me. But the genius of the movie is that it can say any number of other equally meaningful but different things to different people. There is no one message it beats us over the head with. We can all agree it's a beautiful, tragic love story. But the definition of love is really so subjective - how can there be a definitive answer as to what it is? There's a line in Bronte's Jane Eyre, when Rochester says to Jane, "I feel there is a string tied between our two ribs. And if you go far away from me, that string will pull, and I shall bleed inwardly." That's the closest I can come to describing what it feels like to me.
And I totally believed the first tent scene, because I've happened to have a relationship like that, where I was working closely with the same man for a couple of months, socializing in the same circles, building a friendship. I was crushing on him secretly all along. When he finally really noticed me and we came together that first time, it was - well, explosive. And sudden. And almost violent. The next time we got together was much more tender. I've never had more physical passion for anyone else, even though I ended up marrying another man I love dearly who rescued me from pining for this one for the rest of my days. Sometimes I wish I could have helped loving the former. But then again, I wouldn't have these stories to tell.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version