Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Got What They Deserved?
David:
--- Quote from: sfericsf on June 23, 2006, 04:42:38 pm ---It's not OT. I saw the movie first, and I'm thinking my first initial reaction would have been way different if I had read the short story first. ;)
--- End quote ---
Not me. I saw the movie first. It blew me away! I'm glad I didn't know what any of the story line was going to be.
And I when I read the book, I was thrilled that the movie stayed so close to it. I could see our boys in my head as i read the the story.
dly64:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on June 23, 2006, 03:54:32 pm ---And I look don't look at BBM as saying it's intrinsically negative to be gay any more than I look at Romeo & Juliet as saying it's intrinsically negative to be very young and straight and passionately in love. Like Jeff says, the movie shows that the judgment, and ultimately the tragedy, came down from society much more so than the protagonists themselves, just as in R&J. Ennis' (and Romeo's and Juliet's) fears were created, and then fostered, by that society.
I know I'm a straight woman coming at this from a different perspective, so I certainly understand it when gay men see it as being negative towards gay men, though.
--- End quote ---
It's interesting you used the Romeo and Juliet analogy. I have used it as well. I think there are many parallels. If anything, I see BBM as a way of humanizing gays, void of stereotypes and preconceived notions. The intensity of feeling, the passion, love and pain are all universal. The only negativity stems from an acrimonious homophobic society that doesn't make room for the love of two men. That is the tragedy.
silkncense:
--- Quote ---The intensity of feeling, the passion, love and pain are all universal.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. I also believe it's true that a movie or story that has a tragic ending stays with the audience & elicits more review & thought...how could it have ended better/different? What could they have done? Was it society/parents/non-communication/etc that caused the tragedy.
Brokeback didn't need to have a happy ending; it showed the intense love between these two people for all to see. Viewers with negative preconceived ideas would have not been swayed by a happy ending. And I believe a happy ending would have been enjoyed and then it & this movie would have been forgotten in short order. As fontaine stated:
--- Quote ---The only question in my mind is whether tragedies, as Plato described, have more "power" to affect people than happy endings do. Is there as much to learn if everything works out? In that case, the movie isn't likely to move inside you so that you can finish the lesson it begins to tell.
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The true beauty of this film is how thought provoking it has been and as Eric said, will continue to be...
welliwont:
--- Quote from: ednbarby on June 23, 2006, 03:54:32 pm ---
Like Jeff says, the movie shows that the judgment, and ultimately the tragedy, came down from society much moreso than the protagonists themselves, just as in R&J.
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I think the tragedy came from Ennis refusing to make a life with Jack. I know that Ennis was affected by how brutally Earl was killed, but he let a tragedy of twenty or thirty years ago ruin his life and ruin Jack’s life too. Just because Earl was brutally killed, DID NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN that Ennis and/or Jack would meet the same fate. Over the years, since re-uniting with Jack, and especially by the time he and Alma were divorced, common sense and reason should have kicked in, IMO. Life's a gamble, you only go around once, 94% of stuff we worry about never comes to pass……
Ennis was a jerk and a coward. There I said it. Now I'm probably gonna be killed fur that!! "Can't see you again until November, gotta toil like a skivvy." How dumb is that? Why was Ennis denying himself the happiness of being with Jack? Was he really so stupid that he could not arrange his life to have a bit of enjoyment? Or did he do it purposely because subconciously he did not think he deserved to be happy or to be loved? I just don't get you Ennis Del Mar!
The whole way through the movie I was on the edge of my seat, waiting, waiting, waiting (like Jack) for Ennis to come to his senses, to finally be with Jack like they were meant to be. I did not know the story, thankfully nobody told me what was going to happen, so the postcard was just as much a surprise to me as it was to Ennis.
"There y'see! Ya blew it! Now yer NEVER gonna be together! Ya wasted all that time bein' afraid of somethin' that you couldn't even see, and now it's TOO LATE!! God damn you Ennis!"
((running into the woods of Brokeback as fast as my legs can carry me!))
J
serious crayons:
The movie works on two levels, one small and individual and the other large and society-wide.
In the small, individual sense, it's a story about two people in a tragic romance. As Barb so astutely put it, if it's a negative portrait of gay men, then Romeo and Juliet is a negative portrait of straight teenagers.
In the larger, society-wide sense, it's a story about how intolerance -- in this case, homophobia -- warps people's lives. If it's a negative portrait of gay men, then Schindler's List is a negative portrait of Jews.
Yes, it's nice when movies show gay people leading happy, normal, relatively untragic lives, as many gay people we know do. There are a few movies like that, and no doubt there should be more, until the day comes when a movie about a gay couple is as unremarkable as that one with Jennifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn. Or whoever. Just like movies about happy Jewish people are not unusual these days, obviously (although they once were).
But to deny the pain and tragedy and violence caused by homophobia throughout human history, which obviously continues today, in this country and in even more homophobic cultures elsewhere, seems a little like denying the Holocaust.
Jane, I won't try to debate all those points. But I'd like to respectfully point out that "he let a tragedy of twenty or thirty years ago ruin his life and ruin Jack's life too" seems oversimplified and unfair. Growing up gay with a father who you presume capable of torturing a man to death for being gay is hardly some isolated forgettable incident. Ennis' view of his own sexuality was warped, not just by that one experience -- the tip of the iceberg -- but by years and years of experiences, not only with his abusive father, but with almost everybody he came in contact with. It's a lot easier for us, from our comfortable educated 21st-century enlightened liberal post-Stonewall perspectives, to see what "common sense and reason" entails than it would be for Ennis, in that environment, with that background. From his perspective, common sense and reason meant staying with Alma, attempting a relationship with Cassie, devoting himself to work. For Ennis, it was seeing Jack that was the breech of common sense, a huge risk and emotional struggle that he was willing to undertake to the extent he did only because of his incredible love.
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