Author Topic: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?  (Read 10442 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Hey BetterMostians,

it's been a while, but this week we have a question suggested by a member as TOTW :D. Whoo-eee!
Many thanks to Milo (Milomorris) for the suggestion!
 

I thought Milo's questions would work very well as a poll, so I created one. You have two votes, one for each question. The questions are self-explaining, so without further ado, here they are:

Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for the part of Jack's ashes that were in Texas? If so, would she allow them to be exhumed and taken to Brokeback?





Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 12:05:55 pm »
The only way Ennis would have gotten Jack's ashes IMHO is if Lureen or OMT offered them to him. He wouldn't have made the risky step of asking for the ashes of a man who had been killed, he feared, for being gay. Not until he found the shirts, at least. And probably not afterwards, either. It just wouldn't be in his character.
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 01:15:52 pm »
I voted no to the question whether Ennis would have asked Lureen for the part of Jack's ashes that were in Texas. I think he never-ever would.

But hypothetically, if he would have, I think maybe Lureen would have given him the ashes. So I voted I don't know on the second question.
She still loved/respected Jack enough that she wanted his wishes carried out: he was cremated like he wanted, she sent half of the ashes up to his folks because she thought Brokeback Mountain might be some place up there, and she sent Ennis to the Twists so he could scatter the ashes, like Jack had wanted.

But on the other side are practical considerations: the ashes would have to be exhumed. Would this go unnoticed in Childress? Or would it create a hoopla and gossip? While I think it wouldn't be important to Lureen if the ashes were actually in there where she put the stone up, I think she would have hated any gossip and speculation.

Offline mariez

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 01:26:00 pm »
Well, it was probably hard enough for Ennis to make the trip to Lightning Flat and to approach OMT:

.....I come by to tell you that if you want me to take his ashes up there on Brokeback like his wife says he wanted I’d be proud to.”

So once he got turned down there, I can't imagine him calling Lureen back and wanting the ashes that were buried in Texas.  I don't think he would've had any contact with Lureen after that phone call.  And I also think that, once he found the shirts, the he wouldn't feel as much need to bury Jack's ashes on Brokeback because the shirts give him the realization that Brokeback's power was only "imagined."  Their love was the real power. 

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Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 10:57:41 pm »
as Ennis aged, overtime, he might have recontacted Lureen, and under the pretext that OMT was refusing Jack's last wishes, he might have requested some to be sent up.

were Jacks ashes actually buried? Lureen did put up a stone, but did she bury the ashes? Maybe she has the ashes on mantle somewhere?

Offline milomorris

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 11:39:56 pm »
- We know that Ennis "...didn’t want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain." So he was motivated.

- Since Ennis did ask OMT for Jack's ashes in his round-about way, I don't think it would be out of character for him to ask Lureen. Especially since she was the one who brought the idea up in the first place.

- Lureen was interested in seeing Jack's wishes carried out. In light of OMT's refusal, I think she might give Ennis the ashed buried in Childress if asked.

- I don't think Ennis was afraid of betting associated with a man who he feared was killed for being a homosexual. The SS bears no evidence that Ennis thought Lureen was lying to him. Perhaps he thought that she didn't know what "really" happened.

I think there is certainly room for the possibility.
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Offline milomorris

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 11:42:31 pm »
were Jacks ashes actually buried? Lureen did put up a stone, but did she bury the ashes? Maybe she has the ashes on mantle somewhere?

Answer:

Quote
So he was cremated, like he wanted, and, like I say, half his ashes was interred here, and the rest I sent up to his folks.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline Mandy21

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 11:49:36 pm »
Brokeplex, in the film and in the short story, I believe Lureen says something to the effect of "half his ashes was interred here, and the rest I sent up to his folks".  Why would we question her using the word "interred", which according to Webster means, 'to put into a grave; bury'.  What's your premise/theory for us not believing her?

By the way, I voted No, and I agree very much with Chrissie as to why.  Lureen would have been mortified beyond belief is those ashes had to be dug up, and some explaining had to be done.  I think if Lureen had actually ever met Ennis or spoken to him on the phone, even, before Jack's death, that things might have been different, and she might have been a bit more sympathetic to Ennis's grief.  But that wasn't the case.

I also voted No because Ennis was never a man who needed many material objects in order to survive and live his life (or the semblance of the life that he led, more correctly).  Why would he need an urn of ashes to remind him every minute of every day for the rest of that life, of Jack?
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Offline milomorris

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 11:57:00 pm »
By the way, I voted No, and I agree very much with Chrissie as to why.  Lureen would have been mortified beyond belief is those ashes had to be dug up, and some explaining had to be done.

The only explaining that needed to be done was to say that "His father won't honor his wishes, so I will."
 
I also voted No because Ennis was never a man who needed many material objects in order to survive and live his life (or the semblance of the life that he led, more correctly).  Why would he need an urn of ashes to remind him every minute of every day for the rest of that life, of Jack?

The shirts and postcard are material objects.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 27/08: Do you think Ennis would have asked Lureen for Jack's ashes?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 01:33:57 am »
After the reception Ennis got on the phone from Laureen, I dont think he would have dared go near her for anything, let alone the ashes.

I thought she was nice to tell Ennis of Jack's wishes, about scattering his ashes on Brokeback, but I think Ennis may have twigged that she had worked out what kind of relationship Jack had with him, and because of that, I am sure he would have stayed away from her.

I think when Mrs Twist nodded to Ennis when he came down the stairs with the shirts, was her way of saying, "You might not have the ashes, but you have those shirts now"...
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