Author Topic: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity  (Read 3489 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« on: November 10, 2008, 12:45:41 pm »
Hi BetterMostians,

we've seen in movie and story, and heard about it a hundred times in reviews and interviews that our guys are rugged, taciturn and very manly cowboys (don't open the can of worms about the sheepherder discussion again ;)).

Along goes the question what is/was regarded as „manly“, given the time and location of BBM?
And what about the other male characters? Randall, old man Twist (OMT), LD, Aguirre, Monroe and others?

Does BBM buy into the stereotype/prototype of taciturn and distant men? Does it simply portray the reality in doing so? Obviously it undermines the stereotype of gay men being more „feminine“ and straight men being „real tough guys“. The most soft (call it feminine if you want) man on the surface is Monroe, yet he's straight and he gets what he wants: Alma.

Sexuality naturally plays a role in how masculinity is portrayed  in BBM. But I want to take a broader look at the concept of masculinity in BBM. Including, but not limiting it to the interplay between sexuality and masculinity.

Another intersting part of this subject is the traditional (or not traditional) role allocation in Brokeback Mountain. And a further subitem are the relationships between fathers and children (again, not limited to Ennis and Jack).

Parts of this have already been discussed in other Topics of the Week or elsewhere in the Open Forum. I'm bringing this up again because I had a strange moment of doubt on some of the things discussed long ago and being seen as a given (more or less) among Brokies. I'll elaborate further in a separate post.


So, after a long initiation, jump in and share what you think about


The concept of masculinity in Brokeback Mountain



Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 01:52:28 pm »
I am very unqualified to really pass comment on this as I do not know the area and the type of life, people of all sexes had in that era.
I do feel that normally most stereotypes are based on some degree of reality.That can either be played up or down depending on the purpose.

I suspect as Proulx is such a keen observer of human nature in all its frailties it is probably a fairly accurate depiction.

It seems for the most part, hard lives endured by people who in turn became hardened by the life itself. The exception is Newsome, who appears affectionate at the birth of his Grandson, but he lives a far less austere life. So perhaps it is easier for him.
Certainly he is strict as well, and obviously master of the "clan" as witness the thanksgiving scene.I can imagine him being affectionate with his daughter, oddly, I cannot imagine him being affectionate with his wife.

I think masculinity is defined by the poverty of the poor farmer life. Monroe is softer, but I think he can allow himself to be. He is not wealthy by any means, but he is not hardened by a life of abject poverty.

The big surprise to me is always Jack. He has to have endured a fiendishly hard and poverty stricken childhood, yet is the very antithesis of his father. Not only affectionate, but also full of hope. A quality, which most of the other characters do not seem to possess in any great abundance.

So perhaps masculinity in its many forms, is partly defined by circumstance, but also partly by the nature of the man himself. I am sure most of us can think of someone, who no matter how many times they are knocked down by life, will still pick themselves up and continue. Another in the same circumstances may grow bitter and twisted, no pun intended.

It has always interested me that Ennis, goes and immediately picks a fight when Alma has challenged him in the Jack nasty scene. He also fights with Jack, whenever it seems his emotions overwhelm him. Rough, terse and fighting, seem to be the defining qualities of men of that time and place.

Hey feel free to disagree though. I am female, and a Brit so my thoughts are mere conjecture !!!!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 10:54:37 pm »
It has always interested me that Ennis, goes and immediately picks a fight when Alma has challenged him in the Jack nasty scene. He also fights with Jack, whenever it seems his emotions overwhelm him. Rough, terse and fighting, seem to be the defining qualities of men of that time and place.Hey feel free to disagree though. I am female, and a Brit so my thoughts are mere conjecture !!!!
Well, optom, the Brits are the experts at the stiff upper lip thing, so I think you are well qualified to talk about Ennis and Jack. Ennis, as we know from the story, was taught by his father to lash out when faced with a conflict or even just something he doesn't understand. He pulled a dirty punch with his own older brother and with Jack, one that sent Jack away for four long years. Actions speak louder than words, men were taught during that era. Hemingway, John Wayne, Heathcliff and many others were short on words, long on violence. This dysfunctional behavior was not only condoned, it was praised. When I was growing up in the Midwest during that time, we were told to look for the "strong silent type" in men as the ideal.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 08:49:49 pm »
Wow, what a great question, and so many roads to explore with it. I hope we get some posts from men because they are probably the best source of information to tell us how a man works.

Speaking from a womans perception, I think men have two sides....one they show to the outside world, and one they show to their partner and those closest to them. Back then in the sixties, it probably depended on where one lived and what environment they lived in. Ennis and Jack lived the cowboy, outdoors, labour oriented lifestyle, so their outward personality reflected a hard, rough and tumble type of person, showing their anger with their fists, and not taking a backward step in an argument.

The sixties were a time when men started to outwardly show their emotions and peacefulness. The flower power hippie types were not ashamed to hug and kiss in public, show their feelings and try to solve arguments in a more peaceful type of way. Some thought they were "softies" or "efiminate" because they were showing an outwardly softer side to mens personalities. That seemed to be the beginning of the awakening for men and seems to have continued from there, with men openly showing their love to their families and children and we dont think it is "soft" or less manly.

The same could be said, as far as our tolerance and understanding towards gay men. Back then in the early sixties if a man was soft we may have thought that he was gay, or if we saw a gay man acting in an efiminate way, we were a bit "put off" by that, but now days it doesn't seem to bother the straight community as much to see a gay effiminate man.

 Not that all gay men are soft, they are no different to straight men, there are soft, there are rugged, there are in between...its the makeup of who they are, where they were brought up and what their personality is.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2008, 10:28:55 pm »
What happened????

No responses or added posts ????
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 06:33:48 pm »
What happened????

No responses or added posts ????

Katie, this topic has been discussed in several other threads. Unfortunatley, due to the nature of the topic and the lack of respecting others opinions, it always results in feelings getting hurt and a circular argument.

Brad

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 29/08: The concept of masculinity
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 08:23:54 pm »
Katie, this topic has been discussed in several other threads. Unfortunatley, due to the nature of the topic and the lack of respecting others opinions, it always results in feelings getting hurt and a circular argument.

Brad

Oh thats a shame.......yes, I have been involved in other threads of a smilar nature, where all men have been "tagged" with the same label as some "not so nice" men, and can understand how insulting that would be to a man.

Well it looks like this thread is not going to get much response, maybe its for the better, if there was the possibility of it turning into something that might hurt other people's feelings.....So be it...
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection