Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
"Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
Artiste:
Wow, how interesting are all comments and wishes!! Thanks!!
I am immediately without a word or words to answer: Jack, I swear... Maybe because I had thought of many other ways! Hopefully, these will come back to me... especially since I wrote some to remind me.
Rayn, I agree with you that Ennis would not have used the word gay! I grew up as Ennis and Jack!! However, maybe the word queer?? Which word queer I do not accept then nor now!! I prefer always gay!! That word gay colours us gay men, somewhat!! As to: we are hopeful for freedom and love!! Why be sad always nor not hopeful for joys to live as normals, as we are gay men and ladies?? What do you think? And you all??
As to answer: Jack I swear... I do not dare mention my momentary thought about it!! Since, good gladings for the Happy Holidays are here!!
Could Ennis still have secrets and at what cost?? Does he maybe secretly want to tell them or one or some now... to Jack?? By this expression: Jack, I swear...
Hugs!! Happy Gay Holidays full of Joys to you and to all on Bettermost and on Earth!!
Rayn:
"However, maybe the word queer?? Which word queer I do not accept then nor now!! I prefer always gay!! Why be sad always nor not hopeful for joys to live as normals, as we are gay men and ladies?? What do you think? And you all??"
Artiste
Every adult has the right to their own choice of words to describe or define who they are, don't they? I'd say, that's part of what self determination is about; wouldn't you, Artiste? That 's perhaps why you call yourself Artiste and not Artist? Don't you prefer being known as Artiste?
There are some men who actually prefer to call themselves QUEER, did you know that? Didn't you ever hear of Queer Nation? And you cannot assume that because a person interacts with the Gay Community that they are immediately and undoubtedly GAY. There are all kinds of people who exist in and out of the community who are not Gay. If I interact with Native Americans a lot, does that make me a Native America? If I often attend Church with my Baptist friends, does it make me Baptist? Perhaps I am just an open minded Episcopalian, huh? I live among Asian people, but I'm haven't started turning into "an Asian".
Also, Artiste, you could consider the fact that even Heterosexual people do not fit neatly into one sexual category, behavior or pattern. Diversity is the rule of Nature, and yes, there is a place for conformity too, but human beings, like other life forms on earth, don't always fit into the categories that the Human Mind attempts to impose. Reality is about change against a changeless background. But I don't want to get too philosophical here, let's stay on topic and look at what is one of the defining moments of the movie. When Ennis said, "You know I ain't Queer." Jack replied, "Me neither." I respect them as adults and leave them the freedom to define themselves. End of question and of discussion: it's not up to me or you to determine how other people define themselves. When it comes to how other people define their own personal lives, it is best to respect what they decide for themselves, don't you think? Otherswise, one could be seen as trying to impose their will or way on other people and that's not polite. No one has the right to do that, do they?
Respect for individual choices is the hallmark of true freedom. Live and let live, yes? If more people everywhere in the world, in your country and mine, could believe and do that, the world would be far more peaceful. And for the record Artiste, I support the freedom of all people to find happiness in a marriage, whether with the opposite or the same sex. To me, that's a matter, not so much of Gay or Lesbian Rights, but of Human Rights. Wouldn't you agree, Artiste?
PEACE
Rayn
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Artiste:
Well said Rayn!
May I say:
To me: A word is like history!! That is needed!!
To me: A word is also a presence!! Like a present!!
I do not know why some persons prefer to use the word queer!! Qu'est-ce sera, sera; whatever will be, will be as the song says !!
To those who prefer to call themselves queer ... do so, as I am open to that! I will never acept it for myself... for many reasons!! One reason is for me: is that I consider gay life normal!! I find nothing queer about it... even if of course some things about my gay living is queer but not in the negative sense!! Hard for me to explain. Why do I survive as a gay man?? I want to live!! To be effective... as a person in an normal society as a gay man (among mainly straights since society is that)!!
My purpose... my destiny, among getting out like a star in the world among stars!!
Indeed, you are right that I prefer being called Artiste!! For many reasons... one being that it brings about the subject of art right away as my main interest!!
My priority is to live... to be fruitful: my goal to make it better for gay men as well as for all others!!
You say:
Also, Artiste, you could consider the fact that even Heterosexual people do not fit neatly into one sexual category, behavior or pattern. Diversity is the rule of Nature, and yes, there is a place for conformity too, but human beings, like other life forms on earth, don't always fit into the categories
...
And I totally agree with you as you likely noted by my responses on Bettermost, plus in my paintings I created!!
.....
Respect... is another word. But am puzzled about that one!
...
The main message is too human rights for me!! I lost my house giving it to a criminal (passing himself as a Chritian) who nearly murdered me sending 4 to kill me and burn me in my home! And yet I still believe in human rights!! Another such person as an MD (likely islamic) in a hospital, it seems to me, murdered my lover because he was a christian or a jew!! And I still believe in human rights!! I wonder where mine are... and that of my deceased lover!! ?? Criminals have rights, more that decent persons?? I am wondering in our democratic societies!! I need wish bone, no I do not say a woman on TV, I need backbone!! How?
I do not want to put up nor needlessly fight with, more such violence, since I am passionate about life!! I do not murder!! What is my call and yours??
Anyway! Thanks for your comments which I accept! And await your news with open arms,
hugs!!
Since I do not steal my destiny, prefering to steel it with my passion and direction for love, gay living everyday, may I wish you and to all Happy Gay Holidays daily with gladness!!
Penthesilea:
Let's get back on topic:
--- Quote from: brokebackjack on October 15, 2007, 06:26:17 am ---I've never been able to put into words what Ennis meant [IMO] and that is perfect. neither could he. But I think he meant all the above, wasn't angry, didn't even think about randall, the Mexican's, none of them.
He was expressing love.
And the author would have hummed All You Need Is Love. I'm serious. Ennis would have simply loved.
We complicate it all with bullshit words and emotions he wouldn't have bothered to feel, emotions not in the screenplay or the short story.
he would have loved. It's so immense and so awesome he couldn't find anything but "Jack, I swear..."
--- End quote ---
I agree and disagree with you at the same time :).
I agree that when you go right to the core of it, "Jack, I swear...." expresses love. Simple and yet immense and awesome.
But I don't agree that all our interpretations are bullshit which complicates the matter unneccessarily. I think they are indeed valid. There's much more to the story and movie than what is spelled out in screenplay or SS. That's why we're still discussing it, isn't it?
And I'm positive that there was more on Ennis' mind in this exact moment than love. Remember the context of the scene. Alma Jr. has just announced her wedding, she's nineteen, she can do what she wants (but Ennis and Jack couldn't when they were nineteen), she's about to make the commitment Ennis was never able to make to Jack.
I think the similarities and also the huge differences between the situations are also on Ennis's mind and expressed with "Jack, I swear..." Not vocalized and spelled out like I did it, and probably not as concious, but they were there.
There were so many emotions and thoughts twirling on Ennis's mind that he was unable to express them, the above mentioned only being part of it.
Rayn:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on December 30, 2007, 03:18:16 pm ---
1. But I don't agree that all our interpretations are bullshit which complicates the matter unneccessarily.
Me Neither.
2. I think they are indeed valid.
Me too.
Thanks,
RAYN ;)
--- End quote ---
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