Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
"Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
brokebackjack:
Chrissy when I said bullshit, what I meant was this>>>>> I've seen what amounts to a graduate thesis from some people about 'Jack, I swear....' Those things rather flip me out lolol, they always seem to be the work of some over-zealous wordy romantic
Ennis was a simple guy with enormous complexities. He wouldn't have understood, and IMO would undoubtedly have shrugged off all the complex interpretations which some use to describe 'Jack, I swear...' with thousands of misapplied words. I agree with you and Rayn both. Love was paramount, especially in the context of the timing of "Jack, I swear..."; he said it right after Juniour told him about her impending marriage, right after he had asked 'This Kurt fella...does he love you?'
I think he used those words to express every regret he had, every lost moment of 20 years, every sad decision, every denial he had ever made. It was a laconic lament with more impact and feeling expressed in 3 words then most people could express with 3 thousand.
Artiste:
Wow brokenbackjack!
I suppose that we do answer that Ennis Jack, I swear as romantic expressions.
We also could do so otherwise? But do not dare!
Hard to say?
Hugs!! Happy Gay New 2008 Year to you and to all with all the desires you want!!
Rayn:
--- Quote from: brokebackjack on December 31, 2007, 08:47:43 pm ---
Chrissy when I said bullshit, what I meant was this>>>>> I've seen what amounts to a graduate thesis from some people about 'Jack, I swear....' Those things rather flip me out lolol, they always seem to be the work of some over-zealous wordy romantic
Ennis was a simple guy with enormous complexities. He wouldn't have understood, and IMO would undoubtedly have shrugged off all the complex interpretations which some use to describe 'Jack, I swear...' with thousands of misapplied words. I agree with you and Rayn both. Love was paramount, especially in the context of the timing of "Jack, I swear..."; he said it right after Juniour told him about her impending marriage, right after he had asked 'This Kurt fella...does he love you?'
I think he used those words to express every regret he had, every lost moment of 20 years, every sad decision, every denial he had ever made. It was a laconic lament with more impact and feeling expressed in 3 words then most people could express with 3 thousand.
--- End quote ---
Excellent entry, brokebackjack, very valid and, IMO, well said and true. However, as I mentioned before, what any one person thinks & enters here is as valid as any other's in the end because every person has his or her own conclusions and interpretations about what "Jack, I swear..." means. I think it's true when you say, "Ennis was a simple guy with enormous complexities.." That statement can be applied to his "laconic lament" (a brilliant phrase, BTW) i.e. it was a simple statement with enormous complexities, which allows, entertains in fact, all kinds of comments, feelings, conclusions from all kinds of people, doesn't it?
I say again, that's part of the fun and interest in this thread. Considering the many responses to it, the thread also calls for a good amount of tolerance and respect for the conclusions of others. Though some of the entries may " ... seem to be the work of some overzealous wordy romantics", they are the feelings and ideas of other Brokies ( people ) and could be respected even if one doesn't like them. In my experience, one of the worst things to do is hurt the feelings of a romantic person. Some romantics may be "over zealous and wordy" to you, but some are the most sensitive people too. Couldn't we take more care or at least be respectful of them if only for the sake of "community".
Personally, through what has been shared on this thread by realists and romantics, I have come to the conclusion that the meaning of the statement, "Jack, I swear..." is really open ended. That is a conclusion supported by Annie Proux and one of the main reasons, among others, for the Bettermost Community and website: "It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." - Annie Proux Readers/Movie goers will conclude what "Jack, I swear..." means through their own life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts.
That might even be considered the final and definitive conclusion for this thread, though it doesn't have to be taken that way. I'd like to leave it open ended and let it go on just for the sheer fun of interaction on it. On that note, I wish you a Happy New Year! See you again sometime on Bettemost.com.
brokebackjack:
Rayn, really, that was SO well done. The whole Brokeback experience was created for the reader to make conclusions from his or her own experience. The whole short story is like that. Everyone who reads it has a different and very valid conclusion formed from their own lives, their own hearts.That quality of the SS was kept intact when Ang Lee made the film.
Having said that, I still feel a LOT of the scholarly critique and analysis done on Brokeback's short story form, literary construction and style is nothing less then maddening. It can be even more verbose and baffling when the film is discussed. From the way you responded, I'm pretty sure you too read the 'scholarly articles' in the BBM issue of the magazine Film Quarterly. So I will use that as my example even though they didn't deal with 'Jack, I swear...' You and I are on the same wave length, which makes me suspect you might have found yourself wondering whether the learned contributors to that issue saw the same film the rest of us did lol!!!!!!!
I had to consciously remind myself that the magazine's content mattered far less then this simple fact: Quarterly's treatment of BBM formally added it to the short list of legendary films, barely 2 years after its theatrical release. For a LOT of that content---let alone some of the conclusions-- left Brokies [who generally know more about the film then the contributors did] scratching their heads. Those analytic pieces tended to miss the point. With great erudition, they went on and on, using too many words to illustrate startling conclusions which I doubt either Annie Proulx of Ang Lee would have ever thought of. I mean it IS possible lol, but it was hard to see why they would CARE. The meaning of the tale, the ability to extrapolate one's own experience onto the film and draw your own conclusions, was rather lost in the treatment......
While interesting, it was also something of a classic and beside-the-point self indulgence which ended by obscuring what they tried to illuminate.
So too, with 'Jack, I swear...'
Last spring I read this extraordinary critique somewhere---maybe Lee {FrontRanger} might have it in her files?? I'm not sure, but think it might have been written by someone in the UK, honestly don't remember. I think it is about 10-12 pages long, and may very well have BEEN someone's thesis lol.
The damned thesis went on and on, mixing misplaced romanticism [as opposed to romantic feeling!!!!!] with what the author thought was impartial analysis. Well, it wasn't. He used thousands of words to describe the meaning of THREE. In the process, he lost sight of the forest>>>>>>>>leaving the reader with a couple of mishapen trees instead of healthy woods. If anybody has that article, or knows who wrote it, could they post it here? The damned thing was awesome in its ability to confuse the reader; the writer somehow managed to GUSH in all the wrong places.
I just have no patience with the sort of obscurantist 'scholarship' which pulls everything off track. You, me, artiste, ellemeno, David---any member of this forum could have done it better. Why? We may disagree, which is natural; yet we all look towards the common goal of genuine understanding.
Too many of these formal analysiii <sp??> couldn't care less about THAT, while THAT is what we all treasure.
That stuff really irritates me lol.
and HAPPY NEW YEAR! :)
Rayn:
Hello brokebackjack,
Yeah, I understand what you mean, so I usually read such entries until I can stand it and since I know I can't fix it, I stop, ask myself if I really want to continue reading something I'm losing interest in, then follow where my heart and mind direct. Sometimes that means reading on, sometimes it means moving on without a second thought. I'm unable to read very quickly, so I can't always read every long entry on Bettermost. Only short entries or very good writing get my time and interest. But I do know what you're saying. I try to decide as quickly as possible what I want to spend time on then read on or stop without much comment on why I didn't like someone else's entry. That works for me.
I love writing too much not to give it my full attention, so if I offer a long entry, I labor over it, edit and revise until I have what I consider clarity, and of course, writing with an economy of words or what I call "trimming the fat from the page" is important. I can't help it, I'm an English teacher and a writer myself. Writing and speakings are essential parts of who I am and how I make a living.
Thanks much for your good comments on my last entry. I enjoyed yours too. :)
Peace,
Rayn
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