Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

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BBMGrandma:
Hi Folks....I think I'm guilty too....of not introducing myself.  I just kind of JUMPED right in and started yakking. 
I'm a 67 year old heterosexual grandma.  I'm fast approaching 'oldladyhood' I'm afraid.  But that's alright.  I've lived a very full life but since this movie I've discovered a lot of empty spots in my life that I've never filled up.  But....I digress...

I was born in Detroit....a good place NOT to visit anymore....and lived as a child in Connecticut.  I moved with my parents and sisters to California when I was about 6 or so.  I lived in San Francisco for almost all of my life.  I went through all my school years in Catholic school.  My childhood was very bizarre....to say the least.  My mother was a domineering...controlling....woman who's only connection with her daughters was so raise us to pay HOMAGE to the QUEEN...<as she called herself>  She raised us in such a submissive posture...that I've always had trouble asserting my OWN self.  I had NO idea who I was....or where I was going in this world.  Of course my stint in Catholic school added to all that self doubt.  I can remember the NUN....when she discovered that I was left-handed.  She glared at me as though I were some sort of alien in their midst.  Every Friday she would make all my classmates bring their chairs around in a circle around me...and PRAY that the devil would be "cast out of me'  That did a WHOLE lot for my self esteem!!   :-\

In the fifties....when I was done with school....it was expected that you marry....have a load of kids.....and be subjected to your husbands will.  If you weren't married by the time you were 19.....you were an oddball.  And soooooo....I picked some poor guy who never had a chance....and married him!!  BIG mistake!!  I was divorced with a young son when I was 21....completely ill prepared for this big old world.  I was always searching....wondering....questioning.  I was married two more times....more big mistakes.  My final try at finding LOVE in my life was falling SO very much in love with a married man.  It wrenched my heart out...totally.  I spent 7 years...wanting...waiting.  Of course that day never came.
Now I live in Northern California.  I have a teeny little 'spread' as they call it.  I live alone....with my two wonderful pups...and four kitty kats.  My life is comfortable and good.  My son is raised and off with his brood.  I'm surrounded by the vineyards of Sonoma county.  One of my greatest joys is to put the top down on my little Mustang...<yes...Heath has a Mustang too  :D> and drive the countryside.....with my two PUPS!!   
I've posted a few times here....and so I think you've all heard how effected I have been by 'our' movie.  Trust me guys....us little old ladies have been 'gut wrenched' by this story too.  It's as though someone has reached inside my heart...and SQUEEZED it like a lump of Jello.  I feel as though I've been 'drawn and quartered' in my heart.  It's brought out emotions that I didn't know I had!!  All those...."shoulda's....coulda's....and woulda's" have come crashing down on me....like the hail on Ennis and Jack. 
I've received letters from other gals like me....who are struggling with these same emotions too.  I'm hoping we will all learn and grow with each other....folks.  I truly believe that Brokeback Mountain has started a sociological phenomenon that will be studied for years to come! 

Bless us all....and may we ALL discover the Ennis and Jack....inside all of us!!

BBMGrandma...with love!! 

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: emjayen on February 20, 2006, 08:41:33 pm ---Although I tried like heck to meet new people and form relationships, for one reason or another, relationships never took off.  After years of trying, I decided it was futile, and stopped trying

I started out a lot like Jack, a dreamer, an adventurer, goal oriented.  But now, I’m basically living the life of Ennis… closed off from the rest of the world, pretty much unable to express emotions, and sadly still in the closet. 
--- End quote ---

I am behind in messages so here comes a string of them.  There will be even more tomorrow.

I think the issue here might be that you are running in Ennis' shoes and having trouble with emotional expression and your sexuality in general and that, probably more than anything else, may be what is holding back your relationship possibilities.

I went from being a total introvert in high school to an extrovert in college by forcing myself to make some changes, if only because my goal was not to spend the rest of my life being alone.  I wanted to be around people and find a relationship and that required me to make changes.  I succeeded in finding the right person when I was 19 years old.  I'm sure part of that was luck, but also it took a lot of hard work to be willing to express myself and be more open.  The closest I can come to enigmatic people these days are friends, and I have had several that could run the gamut from being intellectually/emotionally immature to those who were just, for whatever reason, unable to be very expressive about their emotions.

I try to be a very patient and tolerant person towards peoples' differences - I'm no perfect person myself.  But one thing I have always insisted on is measurable growth and change in a person.  I cannot afford, for my own emotional well being, to invest myself in someone who can't be there for me when something goes wrong or if I need help, etc.  What usually happens when I sense a person is not growing in the friendship at all is that eventually it causes me to write off the person.  My emotional temperment will make me accuse them (at least internally if not to their face) of being selfish for not at least making an effort.

This is not to say you represent any of this in your own life - I don't know you beyond a few messages here.  But I can tell you that someone looking for a relationship is going to want to find people who are open and who you don't have to pull teeth to get anything out of.  Hopefully BetterMost can offer some insight on some of these issues for you with the exchange of things back and forth and that may help you on your journey.

But I can tell you that giving up and not looking isn't the right answer if you truly want to be with someone.  I think a lot of people are very forgiving and tolerant in a relationship if they see the other person is working on growing and improving.  When I see relationships crumble, it's usually because one person denies there even is a problem and refuses to do anything about it.  Jack and Ennis' relationship over 20 years, if I was one of the characters, would not have been realistic in my own life.  I would have never put up with it.  If I was Jack and I really wanted to be with Ennis the ExcuseMaker, I would have bought property nearby after the divorce and inserted myself into his life at least so that I wouldn't be stuck with "a few times a year" at the outset, and getting through his thick skull down the road.  Barring that, I would have moved on.  There is no way I would let someone do that to me for 20 years no matter what I felt about them at the beginning.  I'd always have feelings for the person, but I would not allow my life to go by with that kind of misery.

I'm only Ennis in myself to the extent I can make up some stupid excuses for not doing things I need to do in my life.  Seeing Ennis use them made me realize just how dumb they were when I was using them.  I have a lot more trouble relating to Ennis because I can't imagine I'd ever sit around alone ... year after year like that. 

There are 250 million people plus in this country.  The chances of there being at least one who would be the perfect person in your life is very, very high.  You just have to make sure they know you are looking, so I'd encourage you to consider getting back into Jack mode, hopefully with encouragement and help from the rest of us!  I have some ideas to lay out in the days and weeks ahead on these issues, and hopefully others will too!

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: BBMGrandma on February 21, 2006, 03:04:50 am ---Hi Mike and welcome.....it's nice to know you and your feelings.  YES.....we've all had very VERY  emotional upheavals while engrossed in this story.  I can see how you would relate to Ennis....but I truly don't think he was all that 'mal-adjusted' in his life....at least not in his ability to LOVE...and love deeply!!  He just didn't know how to handle that love when it came into his life.  He was fearful and I TRULY believe he was fearful NOT just for himself...but also for JACK.  When Ennis broke down in Jack's arms...inside the arms of the person he loved...he was a child...aching to stay.  I think what we all need to learn is how to open up....to let those fears be known....and stand up and slay those 'dragons' that we all keep hidden so deeply inside.
--- End quote ---

I also believe Ennis wasn't really "damaged goods" per se, he was just one of those people who had to deal with a lot of baggage growing up and learned to Berlin Wall off his emotions as a self-defense mechanism.  I've seen that before in people and usually after a lot of work and developing trust with them, and the passage of time in a healthy environment where someone feels safe, the wall will start to crumble.  It may not come down completely, but things will change.  Since these two guys never seemed to come right out and acknowledge anything beyond the equivalent of Brokeback Mountain Fever as the cause of their "connection" together, the road to being comfortable and open, at least with themselves, about their sexuality would be a long one.


--- Quote ---I, for one, have never been able to take ahold of MY needs and let anyone know about them.  I've always been the "rock" and helped others.  I've discovered that NOW it's time to start taking care of ME....and quit being such a chicken chit....about facing life. 
--- End quote ---

I have been the Dr. Phil, therapist to the stars, for most of my friends year after year.  (Usually therapy in this case consists of listening and trying to understand the person, see if they realize something about themselves as they are explaining who they are to me, and then applying common sense.)  Part of the reason I am good at it is I am in touch with a lot of my own feelings and seem to be good with documenting the issues I have completely dealt with, and thus can share them with other people.  Of course, I fall totally apart when trying to diagnose and provide therapy to myself on the unresolved issues in my life.  Then I am the blind man stumbling in the dark.  Having people who rely on me seeing me stumble around often freaks them out because they seemed to be leaning on me for strength and when they see me wavering, that means their own emotional crutch may not be able to support them.

I am humble enough to realize I am not all-knowing about anything, and I need just as much help and support as everyone else.  I've just not had a real avenue or place to go to look for it until BetterMost came around.  Now I have a place where I can put issues out there and hopefully get some great support and advice from others who know more than I or who have already been down that road.  And I hope the same will be true for everyone else on here.


--- Quote ---Hey PHILIP....can we ALL go to Alberta with ya?   What a TRIP that would be...huh?  We can all go to 'our' mountain!!
--- End quote ---

I am investigating the very real possibility of going this summer, finances willing.  My preference would be to drive it, if only to see more of the country.  Outside of a few trips to Ontario, Canada, Florida, Tennessee, Los Angeles, and a quick scoot across the border into Pennsylvania last year, my last "overnight" stay anywhere outside of New York was in 1986!

Who knows what can happen this summer... we have time to discuss the possibilities down the road.

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: Scott6373 on February 21, 2006, 12:09:20 pm ---Gay man living in Massachusetts.   I'm 44...ugh.  Professional singer...classical.  Let's see...I guess I've lived a hell of an interesting life.  Seen a lot, and done a lot...so much in fact that I'm rather astonished that I'm still here!  Since I'm anethema to overly long posts, I'll just say that BBM literally alltered the course of my life, because it forced me to accept responsability for what I don't like about it...my life that is.  Fix it and move on, or realize that it's not fixable, and forget it.

--- End quote ---

Hi Scott and welcome.  One of the things I hope BBM will show us is that some of what we assume cannot be fixed can actually be fixed, just maybe not by ourselves.  Most of what Ennis was complaining about not being "fixable" could have been, or maybe I am being a product of my generation in assuming that even in the 1960s and 1970s, people could actually be together and lead a happy life, albeit perhaps a quiet one.  I almost have to wonder what someone 18 years old right now would think.  I can only guess they'd be more optimistic about the sexuality and tolerance issues than I could have been growing up during the Reagan years.

Phillip Dampier:

--- Quote from: ib4mostthings on February 21, 2006, 08:36:27 pm ---Hi, I've posted a couple of messages having been registered since yesterday and just come across this board. So I guess this should've been my first message.

Well anyway, I'm an out 31 year old gay male, British, now living in Spain. I don't really go out on the gay scene much now. I live rurally in an area you could say is slightly comparable to Brokeback's, originally from London. So I guess you could call me a townie at heart. I've visited the USA many times in the past and stayed there for a couple of months about 6 years ago so I'm kind of tuned into American life whenever it passes me by.
--- End quote ---

Welcome to BetterMost.  With you growing up in Britain, I would assume tolerance would be greater than here in the States.  In fact, I suspect the former colony most culturally closest to this country when it comes to conservative values would be Australia.  But my exposure to life in the UK comes from the BBC and ITV.  At least part of America is aware there are other places around the world with something useful to contribute to the global conversation.

Have you seen the British production Beautiful Thing.  To me, that seems about as close emotionally to BBM as any movie recently released in the last 10 years or so.  Not exactly a direct link between rural cowboys and urban working class, but some of the same issues seemed touched on, with the happier ending going to the British.

I would assume Spain is more culturally conservative than the UK?

As to American life, it's amazing that if something external to America becomes an issue for us and we perceive it as a threat, we are quick to unite.  But on internal issues, especially in our so-called Culture Wars, we seem to be getting more and more divided into our "red conservative" and "blue progressive" states.  We seem to always need to be dragged kicking and screaming into cultural change, usually with the most conservative places being the last to recognize the reality of change.  We'll also always seem to do it two steps forward, one back.


--- Quote ---The film touched me big time, in short, I became a "brokeaholic". You couldn't ever say my life is comparable to either Jack or Ennis, but yet there are so many things and parallels about this story which are very affecting to me. To keep this succinct the main thing about BBM which I can post-analyse as being it's attraction to me is that I feel a film has finally been made about what it's like to live in the closet. Something that I did for a few short years before having the guts to tell people. Hellish years I guess you could say, which even today still form part of my own character and personality but now I believe in a positive way. I want to understand this film so much for my own personal reasons, but also I think it has a very powerful message for societies all over the world to stop people having to be in the closet. And for us all to find happiness..... My congratz to Phillip for having the foresight and determination in setting up this forum for those who need an outlet well after the buzz of this film has died down.

--- End quote ---

Thanks for the nice comments.  It's really amazing how scary it is to sit in the closet and be so terrified to reveal yourself to people only to realize that, in my own experience and watching those of other friends, that when you finally do come out, 1/3rd of your friends will tell you "duh, I already knew that and was wondering when you were going to say something," most of the rest will shrug their shoulders and say whatever, and perhaps one or two will eventually drift away from you not being comfortable with it.  In a lot of cases, it's really uneventful.  It's very liberating as well.  I can recall when I was hanging out with some friends I could actually point to someone and say they were cute and not worry about it, just to note one example. 

Big change is often terrifying though, and people like me can do an amazing job resisiting it for a really long time.

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