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Fun Brokeback questionnaires
dly64:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on July 07, 2006, 12:31:12 pm ---Now let me think about how best to accomplish Questionnaire 2. In moving over the new posts, I'd like to avoid the problem I created with this one, which is a lack of introductory post explaining how to do it (because the computer automatically sticks the oldest post at the top). It's a little less necessary for 2, I suppose, but it would be nice to have there.
--- End quote ---
Can you write an introduction first and then move the others over?
serious crayons:
No, because the computer automatically puts the messages in chronological order. That's what happened here. Now I'm going to have to write the introduction at the top of Mikaela's thread, which is a little unorthodox, but ...
How about this: I'll move the posts over into a new thread, then whoever posted the first one can write an introduction at the top.
serious crayons:
Diane, since you wrote the first one, why don't you tack on an intro at the top. Be sure to tell people how to copy the questions with coding intact, and maybe suggest that they delete their old posts as they get updated.
ruthlesslyunsentimental:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on July 07, 2006, 11:48:04 am ---No, I have not listened to the voters CD.
I think it would be over the top. Too blunt and not Ang Lee-like. And if it were that song, would not others have noticed, too? Would there not have been a lively discussion about it during the last months, like it has been about the mysterious 'I love you'?
--- End quote ---
Many others have noticed it and there have been discussions about it. When I first noticed it, I didn’t think much about it except that it was interesting. The first time I saw someone else bring it up was in a post by Casey Cornelius. Then others joined in. I don’t remember ever seeing anyone tie all of Ennis’ and Jack’s humming and singing together, though.
--- Quote ---Look, I was (and am) not saying you're plain wrong and that my perception is definitive right. Maybe you are right and I would be surprised by listening to the voters cd. That's why I wrote "I don't know, but think no". I hope we can agree to disagree on this ;D
--- End quote ---
OK.
--- Quote ---First: Did I understand you correct: are you saying that Jack doesn't play "He was a friend of mine" once, but actually twice?
--- End quote ---
Yes. There are two scenes where Jack plays the harmonica and he plays “He was a Friend of Mine” in both.
--- Quote ---In your argumentation you take it as given, that Jack is (symbolically) represented by the harmonica. I like this idea and think it's not wrong. But for me it is not as clear as, say, Jack=wind. And not as important as the latter.
So part of your argumentation seems far-streched to me, especially in it's appearing finalty:
--- End quote ---
I didn’t mean to say that I take it as a given. What I was trying to do was show that there is a metaphor in the harmonica and in all of Jack’s and Ennis’ humming and singing and playing of the harmonica. The metaphor is premised on the notion that humming, singing, and harmonica playing are all forms of wind. There seems to be a strong consensus that Jack=wind. Therefore, it’s appropriate to link the wind of humming, singing, and harmonica playing with Jack.
As to the finality—I’m always open to hearing other people use the tools and rules of metaphor analysis and construction to either agree or disagree with what I offer, but until then, I see no reason why one who is offering something should not “own” it and state it directly.
--- Quote ---But the dozy embrace occurs 20 years earlier. I know that this doesn't undermine your agrumentaion completely. It could be deliberate by Lee to show these two scenes temporally close-by (with only two other scenes in between). But this assumption is quite vague for me.
--- End quote ---
Many people see a tie between Earl’s death and Ennis’ imagination during the Lureen phone call. These are separated by about 15 years and many, many scenes. Many people see a tie between Ennis arriving in Signal in a truck in a green-lit sky with a paper bag with a shirt in it to the scene at the end of the movie where Ennis drives home in a truck in a green-lit sky with a paper bag with two shirts in it. These two scenes are 20 years apart and many, many, many more scenes apart. Many people see a connection between the scene where Ennis introduces himself to Jack as “Ennis” … “del Mar” and the scene where he introduces himself to Cassie as “Ennis … del Mar.” I could go on and on.
--- Quote ---In general: something in me is very reluctant to see such good, happy, upbeat activities like singing, humming, playing the harmonica as a foreshadow of something so dark and sad: death.
In my mind it doesn't match up.
--- End quote ---
I’m very confused by this. The song Ennis hums while riding to the bear is about a dead cowboy. The song Jack plays on his harmonica (twice) is about a dead friend. The song Jack sings is about meeting the Lord on the final day and being taken away – this usually means death in other hymns that I know of. Then, after all of this death humming and death playing and death singing, Ennis hums a tune and Jack dies before the boys can meet again. And you don’t think this sounds like a metaphor foreshadowing Jack’s death? Because humming and singing and playing the harmonica are upbeat activities? Are the two songs that roll through the credits (“He was a Friend of Mine” and “Maker Makes”) supposed to be upbeat? Are they not about death and loss and longing?
Then add in Ennis' comment about the harmonica breaking in two. If humming, singing and playing the harmonica foreshadow Jack's death, then it seems logical that Ennis' comment is a foreshadowing of Jack's ashes being in two separate places.
Then add in Ennis' comment about being glad that Jack forgot his harmonica. If the humming, singing, playing metaphor foreshadows Jack's death, then is it not highly ironic that Ennis foreshadows Jack's death himself by telling the Earl death story, right after he himself mentioned the missing harmonica ... the foreshadowing of Jack's death is missing (the harmonica), but is filled in with the Earl death story.
Honestly, with all due respect, I am confused.
Penthesilea:
Ruthlessly:
Since this discussion belongs to questionnaire #2, I posted my answer on the new thread: "Fun Brokeback questionnaire #2".
Here:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=3148.msg55396#msg55396
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