Our BetterMost Community > The Polling Place
Your view on recent Middle East crisis
Giancarlo:
--- Quote from: dly64 on August 02, 2006, 02:16:48 pm ---Ultimately, my belief is that violence begets violence. Evil begets evil. Hatred begets hatred. What we, the USA, have done (IMO) is create an environment of violence, evil and hatred. We have options, but choose not to exercise restraint. We react with guns and rhetoric. We put good men and women in a situation that is bound for failure. More and more people die every day. For what? So-called democracy? (Personally I wish Bush would make his all-to-precious daughters serve in the military. Then he might consider a change in strategy since, currently, he has no regard for human life. Nor does he pursue the option for peace. It’s “shoot now, ask questions later.”)
--- End quote ---
Well that is certainly your opinion, but I thought with my own eyes that taking the action we did in Iraq was necessary. Though I do not like Bush, I think it is not really fair to say he has no regard for human life. Trust me, I really don't like the guy at all.
ekeby:
--- Quote from: Giancarlo on August 02, 2006, 02:01:51 pm ---We need a libertarian government, not a conservative or progressive one. A libertarian government would really solve a lot of problems in this country.
--- End quote ---
I live in Wisconsin; we have a big Libertarian presence here. I've been interested in their "take over a state" movement (can't recall the name of it now), and have wondered why gay people haven't thought about doing the same kind of thing at some level.
I don't have a real good handle on Libertarianism. As far as I can make out, it means different things to different people, with personal liberty at the core. In an ideal world, any political philosophy would work fine. In an ideal world, every citizen would be informed and engaged and pragmatic and ethical. It's not an ideal world.
I don't quite understand how you square Libertarianism with invading Iraq. I would think those two things were not compatible, but like I said, I don't have a good handle on Lib. philosophy. But re Iraq. I believe the sole reason our ruling junta invaded Iraq was to secure and assure access to the oil fields, because of the Saudi royal family's tenuous hold on theirs. The stated reasons are window dressing. I don't find the real motives reason enough to have caused all the death and destruction. Some wars may be justified, but I don't think this one is. Nothing you say will likely change my mind, just as nothing I say will probably change yours.
dly64:
--- Quote from: Giancarlo on August 02, 2006, 02:30:50 pm ---Well that is certainly your opinion, but I thought with my own eyes that taking the action we did in Iraq was necessary. Though I do not like Bush, I think it is not really fair to say he has no regard for human life. Trust me, I really don't like the guy at all.
--- End quote ---
I understand your POV. I am just at the opposite end of the spectrum. It sounds as though you are close to people who serve and you have a different perception of the rationalization for the war. For me, I just get sickened by the violence and hatred that is so prevalent in our world. What are we teaching our youth?
BTW … I am glad you don’t like Bush. The man makes me cringe every time I see him. You might not have that severe of a reaction …. but, tell ya what, I most certainly do!
Giancarlo:
--- Quote from: ekeby on August 02, 2006, 03:32:25 pm ---I live in Wisconsin; we have a big Libertarian presence here. I've been interested in their "take over a state" movement (can't recall the name of it now), and have wondered why gay people haven't thought about doing the same kind of thing at some level.
--- End quote ---
I don't see why more people haven't supported libertarians because they are more moderate then republicans.
--- Quote ---I don't have a real good handle on Libertarianism. As far as I can make out, it means different things to different people, with personal liberty at the core. In an ideal world, any political philosophy would work fine. In an ideal world, every citizen would be informed and engaged and pragmatic and ethical. It's not an ideal world.
--- End quote ---
There is pretty much one major type of libertarianism (along with smaller variants of it). Libertarianism is not one uniform set of beliefs. I'm not saying it is an ideal world, but we ought to make the best of it. Libertarianism is predominantly dominanted by the personal liberated oriented center right crowd (wordy I know).
--- Quote ---I don't quite understand how you square Libertarianism with invading Iraq. I would think those two things were not compatible, but like I said, I don't have a good handle on Lib. philosophy. But re Iraq. I believe the sole reason our ruling junta invaded Iraq was to secure and assure access to the oil fields, because of the Saudi royal family's tenuous hold on theirs. The stated reasons are window dressing. I don't find the real motives reason enough to have caused all the death and destruction. Some wars may be justified, but I don't think this one is. Nothing you say will likely change my mind, just as nothing I say will probably change yours.
--- End quote ---
I don't agree at all. And I think it is a big assault on me as a person that you try to tell me my beliefs are not compatible with Iraq. If I said I supported the Patriot Act in its entireity then you would have a case. A very strong case, as many elements (which have been now removed) in the Patriot Act impede of personal liberties. However, I do believe in the war in Iraq. And I think your statements are a bit too reactionary. Ruling junta? Excuse me? He's going to be gone in 2008. Goodbye, adios Bush. No more of him ever. And if we were so dead set on taking those oil fields why didn't we seize them? They have been handed over to the government. Thanks for insulting me and my views, and then attempting to define what I should believe in. You do nothing but alienate people who have different views then you. I think this war was justified, and guess what? I won't ever change my mind on this one.
Giancarlo:
--- Quote from: dly64 on August 02, 2006, 03:43:44 pm ---I understand your POV. I am just at the opposite end of the spectrum. It sounds as though you are close to people who serve and you have a different perception of the rationalization for the war. For me, I just get sickened by the violence and hatred that is so prevalent in our world. What are we teaching our youth?
BTW … I am glad you don’t like Bush. The man makes me cringe every time I see him. You might not have that severe of a reaction …. but, tell ya what, I most certainly do!
--- End quote ---
I just think "Well he is going to be leaving office in 2008, so might as well see if there is going to be a better candidate." You must understand I have voted both ways before. But the republicans in California are far different then other republicans in this country. Though I am libertarian, I have talked with gay republicans in this state (I'm also working for the Arnold Schwarzenegger campaign).
I hate to be a pessimistic... but there always has been violence in this world. The cold war was a far worse time to live in (though there was not active wars, there was plenty of wars all over the world). The two years we should not forget are 1993 and 1994. Those were some of the most violent years of our time (when huge massacres occurred in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, Burundi and neighboring countries).
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version