Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
delalluvia:
And the hits just keep onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn comin'!, Jeff
--- Quote --- Nor do I love Jack the less. It just hurts all the more, now I see him in this light.
Granted, Ennis was a lousy husband. For that matter, I've never really understood why Jack stuck it out with him for that long. Wouldn't it have been more "grown up" of Jack to quit Ennis long before that final confrontation?
--- End quote ---
Yep, go check out the "Who do you identify more with, Jack or Ennis?" and read about the people who stayed with their Ennis' because they were in love (me for one). Love is a hard nut to crack sometimes. How often do you find it? I mean, real love? It's hard to let go when you do.
--- Quote ---I'll grant the point that Jack does seem more willing to try to fix things than to stand them, but look at his suggested fix to the food situation: killing and eating one of the sheep they were getting paid to guard. I have to take my stand with Ennis on that one.
--- End quote ---
I was with Jack. It was an emergency, they'd lost half their food for a week through no fault of their own. Yeah, they could subsist on beans for a week, but why would they want to if they didn't have to?
Jack: What are you talking about? They're a thousand of them.
Aguirre expected an attrition rate of his sheep anyway. One more or less wouldn't have been that earth-shattering nor - had they been good shepherds - even noticed.
--- Quote ---(OT but I've always felt Jake was badly directed--yes, I said badly directed!--in the scene where Jack tries and fails to shoot the coyote. He isn't even trying to aim that rifle properly.)
--- End quote ---
Maybe that's because Jack is not really good with a gun? :-* It's just one more thing he might brag that he knows how to do but really doesn't? Ang made sure Jake and Heath knew how to ride and rope and handle livestock and you're saying that Ang neglected something as basic as gun-handling when there are two scenes that are clearly meant to contrast the marksmanship of our two guys? I don't think so.
--- Quote ---I think the evidence is slim to call Jack his son's primary care giver, but that might also hinge on how the term is defined, though without doubt he does show admirable concern for his son's well-being.
--- End quote ---
Agree. But since the scene Jack has with Bobby playing riding him around the combine is an added scene and not in the story I think that that's what it means . What adds to that is that the scene takes place not at their house, but at Newsome's Farm Equipment, that IMO implies Jack has time or wants to play with his son on the job, while Lureen does/can not. It was a family business. I imagine both Jack and Lureen spent a lot of time there. Since Lureen was the owner, and Jack only a salesman, he could 'clock out' at 5 pm, go pick up Bobby from school/caretaker while Lureen stayed behind to shut down the business, tally the sales, balance the books, etc.
--- Quote ---(Let's also not forget Ennis's concern that his little girls are being exposed to those slopbucket bikers, he suggests treating them to ice cream, and he promises to take them to the church picnic.)
--- End quote ---
Agree, but Ennis' fireworks scene was about his irritation and feelings of being trapped. Notice that his 'little girls' exposed to such language are not of an age to even understand what is being said. Heck, Jenny is practically an infant! Ennis suggests treating them to ice cream, but parents often offer a treat when children have been sick as an incentive (plus it was also wonky that Ennis would buy ice cream for an infant and a two year old), but this is very very early in his relationship with Alma. Before he even meets Jack again. Ennis only promises to take the girls to the church picnic because they pleaded with him. He apparently had not intended to go nor offered to take them before.
--- Quote ---We don't know whose idea it was to go to that charity dinner dance, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lureen dragged Jack there, more out of concern for social position in the community than from any desire for a social life. To me he doesn't look too happy about being there.
--- End quote ---
True, but Jack still goes. Could Alma have dragged Ennis? If a man doesn't want to go somewhere, he doesn't go. Like Ennis. Jack went. The Newsome's are a big, well known family business in Childress. It would be expected that they're part of the local social set that does such things. Jack would have known that from the beginning.
--- Quote ---And running off to a hustler in Mexico just because he can't get laid by Ennis is the act of a spoiled, selfish brat. (Yes, I'm being very harsh here.)
--- End quote ---
Soooooo after five years of being faithful to Ennis, an unselfish healthy young man raging with hormones that cannot be assuaged by his wife would just go home and keep doing without because his lover tells him that's the way it's going to be?
Jack: I'm not you! I can't make it on a few high-atitiude fucks a year!
And he's not and Jack shouldn't be expected to be an Ennis and act like a monk because he can't get what he needs from his lover.
Sounds practical and pragmatic, not selfish. It also sounds sad. Jack is not happy at all that he does it.
--- Quote ---Running up to Wyoming unannounced just because he got word that Ennis's divorce had been finalized is not a very adult course of action.
--- End quote ---
Adult? Very much so. I think we all have stories like this. I wouldn't be the one to say they're not the actions of an adult. To me, Jack acts like a man in love. Announced? Sure. Jack is implusive, takes chances. That's who he is.
Jeff Wrangler:
(and I love how her [Alma, Jr.'s] face opens up like a flower with pleasure when he says he will),
Barb,
Just had to say, that's a beautiful and very apt image--more or less what I thought myself as I watched the scene Friday night.
Jeff
Jeff Wrangler:
As for who was more or less mature regarding their wives and kids and all that, I think neither were heroes nor villains. They both got married because they thought that was the appropriate thing to do -- again, according to the dictates of their culture. They both tried to do right by their kids. In fact, I've always found that a flaw in the post-divorce scene -- Ennis actually did the RIGHT THING by spending time with his daughters. Yes, he could have explained it better to Jack (who, after all, should not have driven all that way without notice). Yes, obviously he was paranoid about the white truck. But if this is supposed to be an instance of Ennis letting Jack down unfairly, Ennis should have had a lamer excuse. Had he ditched the daughters for the second month in a row in order to go off with Jack, I would criticize him for that myself.
Thanks for that, latjoreme!
Another thing that I've noticed about that post-divorce scene, and have been involved in a discussion about in the past, is that while Ennis is paranoid about the white truck, we don't seem to see any reaction to Jack's telling him that he's been asking people all over Riverton where Ennis is living. If I were Ennis, that would bother me a lot more than one pickup passing on the road.
Jeff
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on April 08, 2006, 06:17:47 pm ---And the hits just keep onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn comin'!, Jeff
--- Quote ---(OT but I've always felt Jake was badly directed--yes, I said badly directed!--in the scene where Jack tries and fails to shoot the coyote. He isn't even trying to aim that rifle properly.)
--- End quote ---
Maybe that's because Jack is not really good with a gun? :-* It's just one more thing he might brag that he knows how to do but really doesn't? Ang made sure Jake and Heath knew how to ride and rope and handle livestock and you're saying that Ang neglected something as basic as gun-handling when there are two scenes that are clearly meant to contrast the marksmanship of our two guys? I don't think so.
Yes, Jack is supposed to be a bad marksman, but I'm stickin' to my guns on this one. When I was a teenager my dad and I shot targets. I was a lousy shot, but at least I know you have to raise a rifle higher than Jake does in order to sight what you're aiming at. It would have been possible for Jack to be a bad marksman and at least have it look like he's trying.-JW
--- Quote ---I think the evidence is slim to call Jack his son's primary care giver, but that might also hinge on how the term is defined, though without doubt he does show admirable concern for his son's well-being.
--- End quote ---
Agree. But since the scene Jack has with Bobby playing riding him around the combine is an added scene and not in the story I think that that's what it means . What adds to that is that the scene takes place not at their house, but at Newsome's Farm Equipment, that IMO implies Jack has time or wants to play with his son on the job, while Lureen does/can not. It was a family business. I imagine both Jack and Lureen spent a lot of time there. Since Lureen was the owner, and Jack only a salesman, he could 'clock out' at 5 pm, go pick up Bobby from school/caretaker while Lureen stayed behind to shut down the business, tally the sales, balance the books, etc.
I think you're reading too much into the combine scene.-JW
--- Quote ---(Let's also not forget Ennis's concern that his little girls are being exposed to those slopbucket bikers, he suggests treating them to ice cream, and he promises to take them to the church picnic.)
--- End quote ---
Agree, but Ennis' fireworks scene was about his irritation and feelings of being trapped. Notice that his 'little girls' exposed to such language are not of an age to even understand what is being said. Heck, Jenny is practically an infant! Ennis suggests treating them to ice cream, but parents often offer a treat when children have been sick as an incentive (plus it was also wonky that Ennis would buy ice cream for an infant and a two year old), but this is very very early in his relationship with Alma. Before he even meets Jack again. Ennis only promises to take the girls to the church picnic because they pleaded with him. He apparently had not intended to go nor offered to take them before.
Ennis's own stated reason for his actions in the fireworks scene is the presence of his children. He's acting to protect his children. We have no way of knowing whether Ennis knew about the picnic, and in the end, he still agrees to take them because they want to go.-JW
--- Quote ---We don't know whose idea it was to go to that charity dinner dance, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lureen dragged Jack there, more out of concern for social position in the community than from any desire for a social life. To me he doesn't look too happy about being there.
--- End quote ---
True, but Jack still goes. Could Alma have dragged Ennis? If a man doesn't want to go somewhere, he doesn't go. Like Ennis. Jack went. The Newsome's are a big, well known family business in Childress. It would be expected that they're part of the local social set that does such things. Jack would have known that from the beginning.
So what's your point? A man might not go, but a henpecked husband would, and Lureen clearly wears the pants in the family because she controls the money. You're more or less saying what I said, they were there because of their social position.-JW
--- Quote ---And running off to a hustler in Mexico just because he can't get laid by Ennis is the act of a spoiled, selfish brat. (Yes, I'm being very harsh here.)
--- End quote ---
Soooooo after five years of being faithful to Ennis, an unselfish healthy young man raging with hormones that cannot be assuaged by his wife would just go home and keep doing without because his lover tells him that's the way it's going to be?
Jack: I'm not you! I can't make it on a few high-atitiude fucks a year!
And he's not and Jack shouldn't be expected to be an Ennis and act like a monk because he can't get what he needs from his lover.
Sounds practical and pragmatic, not selfish. It also sounds sad. Jack is not happy at all that he does it.
So you're condoning infidelity and prostitution because they're practical and pragmatic? There are other ways Jack could have obtained relief, known to all gay men, and probably to a lot of straight ones, too.-JW
--- Quote ---Running up to Wyoming unannounced just because he got word that Ennis's divorce had been finalized is not a very adult course of action.
--- End quote ---
Adult? Very much so.
Are you deliberately goading me? Running up to Wyoming that way without letting Ennis know he's coming is not the action of a responsible adult. It's the action of an impulsive child.-JW
I think we all have stories like this. I wouldn't be the one to say they're not the actions of an adult. To me, Jack acts like a man in love. Announced? Sure. Jack is implusive, takes chances. That's who he is.
--- End quote ---
I don't have a story like that, and I am saying that's not the action of a responsible adult.-JW
twistedude:
I have YET to hear a good explanation for Ennis writing /phoning (in the short story) Jack about the divorce to begin with! They are not the long-distance communicating type, a date they were gtting together had already been set for next month, and as far as Ennis is concerned, his divorce makes no difference in his relationship with Jack. What would YOU do if you suddenly heard from your lover that he was getting a divorce?! Did Ennis add: I sure will miss the girls. Doubt it. (even though it's true).
I have not, and maybe never will, watch my DVD half a dozen times, because the player is broken. I'm pretty good with a can opener, though (25 times).
Baseball has been full of some pretty cute guys..this one died at 34 in 1894 of alchoholism. Leans on that Pedestal like Jack leaning on a truck..... click to enlarge...
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