Our Boys Crying..

[wolf]

wow, very interesting to see that Tally of Tears  .  had realised Ennis was more of a crier than Jack, but not THAT much more  .  makes sense tho, as previous poster said.  he's less able to vent via articulation than Jack, so the ol' pressure cooker blows.

just did a quick tally of my own good man's occassions of weepiness, and got something of a surprise there too:

at our wedding
after our first fight
when his father passed away
when our son was born
when our daughter was born
when watching BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN

that's all I know of in 17 years - how about them apples  .

W

[serious crayons]

when watching BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN

Now we know why you've let him stick around for 17 years. 

[gattaca]

Interesting thread - I just found it. (I'm a little slow on the uptake, I guess).

Jack shed tears alone after the divorce scene, seen by no one, except Ang Lee's camera lens. It resonated with me simply because that's the way I release pain. Privately. (I can't tell you how many times I have shed tears over this movie, but if I were watching it with someone else, I'd bottle that up). Jack's tears were a combination of pain, rage (look closely at his eyes), dashed hopes and desperation.

I have observed that many American men (I'm pretty sure sexual orientation is not a factor) bottle their feelings up publicly. Perhaps that's a contributing factor to our outwardly violent natures.

I couldn't say why Ennis' tears were seen more throughout the film, other than Ang Lee's use of tears to heighten Ennis' emotional conflict (Jack was not nearly as conflicted) - I believe that Ennis had that 'tape' of his dad showing the two brothers Earl's dry-gulched corpse playing in his head every time Jack made even the most subtle reference to the two of them having a life together - and by extension, I also think anyone trying to get close to Ennis, male or female, would trigger that 'tape'. Ennis is held forever hostage to his father's singular hatreds and it poisoned every good thing that ever happened to Ennis.

Ennis' tears had far more complex sources than did Jack's.

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

I think Jack did some crying after the final lake scene. Just my theory. And he definitely looked on the verge of tears in the "You've seen this?" scene (see: my avatar).

This is a really interesting thread though. Can't contribute much else right now.

[Rayn]

There's a lot here, so I'll just try to answer the original questions:


1.  Were they really more in touch with their feelings than we know or did they repress them?

I saw Jack as being more aware of his feelings and then Ennis came along in time, but both were very aware of how they felt about each other after their reunion.  They both had social conventions of their "cowboy" society to contend with and that makes they often appear to repress, but it's more "control" their feelings, I think.
 
2.  Do you think they showed more in private where we would not see them?

Yes, I do.

3.  Also.....this question came up.......about men crying..... Do you think men cry as easily as we women do? 

No, it depends on the person.  I cry more easily than many women friends of mine, but to look at me, you'd never expect that would be the case.   There's nothing "lady like" about me.

5.  or No, they push it down deep?

Some do, others don't.

6.  Is sensitivity a gender trait?

No, men can just as sensitive or more sensitive than women and vice versa.

7.  How have you felt seeing a man cry?

I feel sympathy, usually.  If it's a friend, I may try to comfort or encourage, but I'd never stop anyone from crying if they feel such emotions.


8.  Who was more sensitive ..Jack or Ennis??

They are both sensitive. Ennis was very sensitive, but couldn't deal with it was well.  Jack showed his sensitivity more easily.  They were both hurt by not being able to be together and both of them showed that is different ways.  I have no problem with either of them crying.  Tears are an expression of human emotion.  They have nothing to do with gender, unless you are conditioned to think they are.   Also, being in love is often an overwhelming emotional experience and emotions that are as strong as Love cannot always be "control" and don't always fit into neat "male or female' behavior packages.   You know?

[Anya_Angie]

I am agreeing with some things already said regarding our boys, that they have these feelings, but don't show them. They repress them. In Ennis' case, despite the fact that he cried more than Jack in the film, I still think he has more repressed feelings than Jack. Though I can't really say why I feel this way...

The men I know best in my life are my stepdad and my father. My stepfather and father are as different as can be. My father is quiet, reserved, compleely unemotional. The only time I ever saw him cry was at his mother's funeral in 2001. And even then, it wasn't that tears were flowing; as far as I could tell they were still in his eyes. He was stiff and frozen.

My stepdad has never cried that I know of. When he's upset, he launches straight into anger. He's never violent, thank God, or I'd be terrified to be in the same room with him. But he shouts and swears. Sometimes I think he must be very repressed regarding his feelings in general because he will get upset over the STUPIDEST things! Like, for example, if he can't find some bananas or lunchmeat that was simply misplaced. When my mother points them out to him, he flips because he's been proven wrong. That's something that irks me altogether about him. Niether of us like to be proven wrong. When I know I am right, when disagreeing with him, we get into a shouting match that never ends! Thank God I have my own house now where I can go to get away from him, even if it is just next door. That's still a lot better than locking myself in my room for fear he would burst in.

I have an older brother, but he is very much like my father in that he doesn't really show his feelings either.

This might sound silly, but the only time I ever saw a man cry in "real life" would be at Skate Canada in 2005, when Johnny Weir sprained his ankle in the middle of his program, yet continued to skate. After he finished, he went to receive his marks and cried, but he did not show his face; he had his head down. You could hear him sobbing, that of course was from the physical pain, also perhaps the possibility that he might have to be out of competition for a while which might have jeopardized the Olympics...

But I digress. Anyway, that's really the only time I saw a man really "cry" in a real life circumstance.

[Marge_Innavera]

I envy women the ability to be more expressive with their emotions.  I know the idea is that gay men are often more in touch with their feelings, but I don't always find that to be so.  In fact I think we have sort of developed a different way of defending against them (cynical or bitchy humor, etc.)

My late Religious Science teacher/minister in Atlanta (he was gay, BTW) used to say that women are encouraged by society to express emotions "to a fault", with only one exception: anger. And that, conversely, men are encouraged to repress emotions to a fault, with that same exact exception.  IMO one of his better insights, definitely.

[serious crayons]

My late Religious Science teacher/minister in Atlanta (he was gay, BTW) used to say that women are encouraged by society to express emotions "to a fault", with only one exception: anger. And that, conversely, men are encouraged to repress emotions to a fault, with that same exact exception.  IMO one of his better insights, definitely.

Wow, that is an excellent observation. I bet I will remember that, and he wasn't even my teacher!

[silkncense]

Jack shed tears alone after the divorce scene, seen by no one, except Ang Lee's camera lens. It resonated with me simply because that's the way I release pain. Privately. (I can't tell you how many times I have shed tears over this movie, but if I were watching it with someone else, I'd bottle that up).

That is SO me (generally) although sometimes a few silent tears rolled down my cheeks.  And not just the film - none of my friends see me cry - breakups, divorce -

women are encouraged by society to express emotions "to a fault", with only one exception: anger. And that, conversely, men are encouraged to repress emotions to a fault, with that same exact exception.

I think I may be a man.

[Momof2]

I am an extremely emotional person.  Growing up, I never saw men cry.  The ony time I saw it was during something tragic, i.e. death.  I had never seen my husband cry before our daughter was born.  Very stoic.  Would not let those emotions out.  The minute she came out he was balling like a baby.  Did not care who saw it.  My heart melted.  The next time I saw him cry was when our son was born.  Same thing.  As soon as he was out, balling like a baby and proud of it.  He got sick when our son was 7 months old.  Now he is alot more emotional than he has ever been.  I think when you go through something like that you appreciate things more. 

I am trying to teach my son that it is ok to cry and to show your emotions.  My husband supports this though at first I thought he would not.  He says he wants him to have a better life and to let the people he loves know it.  It is hard when society tells him and all other males that this is not acceptable.  My daughter, the drama queen, has no problems showing her emotions, good or bad.  My son is very preceptive of others feelings.  So tender.  Of course I am sure this will end in a few years when he is shamed into not showing emotions.  So sad.  I will not give up.

I guess that is why when you see a man cry is has such an impact because it is not something alot of us see.  When Ennis cries at the divorce and then Jack cries leaving after the divorce scene it kills me.  So powerful.