Was: Laramie Tales: New Working Title: Tales of Greenlea County (ARCHIVE)

[mariez]

Hi Mariez,

I agree that Ennis needed to unburden his terrible load of guilt and work through his grief, particularly in the early stages of his relationship with Ellery. This his did as he gradually opened up and started to accept his sexuality which was so bound up in his silent shame which kept his mouth shut. Ennis has done a lot of talking encouraged by Ellery and this has got him over the hump of that early very intense period. But there comes a time, I believe, that continued talking about your lost one and your grief starts to try the patience and understanding  your friends and even your partner. That is why today people sometimes go to grief counselors! Ennis doesn't have this option of course and if things become unbearable again he needs to speak about it to Ellery - and he would because Ellery would know and encourage it out.

But there are instances along the path of recovery where a person has a momentary relapse into grief (and guilt, its companion) which they can get over with their own resources. These will get less as time goes and Ennis learns to come to terms with his past with Jack. Does he have to dig up his relationship with Ellery by the roots  and have crisis talks with Ellery every time this happens? This is when it starts to become counterproductive.

Making a federal case out of it blows it up making it worse than it need be. Ellery feels relegated to second fiddle and the reception is turning into a test of Ennis' commitment to Ellery. It's almost as if he is being made to choose between honouring Jack's memory in his own mind (by refraining from such a public celebration of his new love) and making a public statement of commitment to Ellery. And that statement of commitment - a wedding reception - is the very thing that triggered the relapse in the first place. Why push things to that extent?

These days Ennis is coming good and his relationship with Ellery is stable and happy. He is living with Ellery, has gone through a wedding service and wears his ring. He is going to have periods of crying and residual guilt feelings. What more does he have to do?

You've answered my last question Mariez. Very perceptive comment! I couldn't agree more!

I'm am enjoying reading your thoughts so much!  Thank you!  I actually don't disagree with any of your comments (well, maybe a little when it came to skipping wedding ceremony!  ) 

I do agree that there are times when a person just needs to be alone with their feelings and work things through.  And, yep, Edna was sticking her nose in  - but, in all fairness, she wasn't trying to spy on Ennis - she came upon him quite innocently - he was in the stable and she did have a good reason for going out to speak to him.  Maybe your comment about Ennis needing a shed is on point!    Also, in all fairness, I can understand why the sight of Ennis sobbing scared her into calling Wes . . . and well - we know what happened from there.  So - what was Ellery to do?  Knowing how upset Ennis was I don't think it is reasonable to expect Ellery to ignore what he knew had happened.  I guess I don't think it is quite fair to label Ellery's honest effort to comfort Ennis as a cross-examination, though!  Perhaps it would have been better if he hadn't known what happened . . . but he did. 

As to Ennis being forced to choose between honoring Jack in his own mind and making a public statement about Ellery - well, the key words there are "in his own mind."   It is his destructive guilt which is causing those feelings in his mind - and that is something I think Ennis knows he needs to work on!  But I guess discussion of the reception is rather a moot point - as we know it actually does take place  -and I'm guessing that Ennis won't be coerced into it and I'm also guessing that it's going to be a happy, lively event - with maybe a few surprises, who knows!   

Yep - Ennis will always have periods of grief and crying - only natural and only to be expected - but I think that knowing it is a "shared burden" (to use the last words of the last chapter) will help immensely - knowing that they can turn towards each other for love and support - and not away from each other in guilt and silence.

Thanks again for the great discussion!  I always love reading your thoughts!

Marie

[magicmountain]

Marie,

I also enjoy very much reading your take on things! I added a  PS to my above comment re Ellery which you may have missed.

I think that Ellery, knowing that Ennis had been crying, could have comforted him without probing for details. But Ellery, being Ellery would find that difficult. I realise I am imposing my own world view on how these characters behave and should not be prescriptive about it. However, it is interesting to test out different approaches to how a relationship is managed.

Ellery, like the detective he is, needs to get the facts. Ennis obliges. Ellery is hurt by what he hears. Ennis perceives that he has hurt Ellery. He feels guilty about this too. Ellery is feeling more hurt than he did five minutes ago. Ennis is feeling more guilt than he did five minutes ago. But hey, life and people aren't perfect. It just seems to me that the notion of "sharing" all feelings does not always result in the best outcome even though this seems counterintuitive. Many relationships survive and prosper by what is not said or what is not asked, for the sake of the other person.

[mariez]

Hi again! 

Yes - I'm sorry-  I guess I posted so quickly and I did miss your P.S. about Ellery!  I enjoyed seeing that taken into consideration - as Leslie mentioned in a post earlier -there is no "I" in couple, is there? 

I guess all I can add is that we see from that last brilliant chapter "Eclipse" that Ellery and Ennis do indeed share their feelings with good results - so I guess, in this instance, it was a good idea!  As I mentioned earlier - the idea of a 'shared burden' seems to comfort both of them and they reached this important step through honesty and communication. That's not to say that they always need to share everything and every thought that passes their minds!  I love, for example, the fact that Ennis told Dupree that his private thoughts are his own (in that case he was talking about why he loved Ellery's long hair   ) 

I'm looking forward to the reception - and I'm feeling confident that Ennis won't be sobbing guiltily in the stables while it's taking place!  Right, Louise? 

Thanks again!

Marie

[David]

Just a postscript. Who would have thought that the wedding reception or party would end up being so fraught! I am probably not the only one who thought, like Edna, that it would be a jolly affair and an excuse have more fun and high jinks! As veterans of BBM and the Laramie Saga, we should have known better!

Yeah right!    Alma will show up to drag the girls home causing a food fight at the reception.    Jeeves and Nick will end up in fisticuffs over Jeremy and Wayne will end up catching the bouqet of flowers!   Just another day in Laramie!    LOL

oh yeah, and Bobby Twist will show up out of the blue  (He'll be about 19 yrs old now right?)  looking like the spitting image of his father which will cause Ennis to think he is seeing Jacks Ghost!

[magicmountain]

LOL David!

It occurs to me that Ennis sometimes seems somewhat childlike in his need for physical comfort, almost like being held like a baby. (This is the other side of the coin to Ennis' stoic, silent masculinity but does it also represent going to the other extreme?) Ellery, the nurturer, acts the role of parent giving the comfort sought.

Again, at the risk of rocking the boat, it may be that sometimes intimate relationships can infantalise us to some degree and the parent/child, rescuer/dependent roles are easily fallen into. Do the benefits of Ellery's emotional satisfaction in providing comfort and Ennis' emotional relief in receiving comfort outweigh the costs of incurring the hurt and guilt resulting from their recent exchange?

[synne]

Marie, thoughtful comments, love to read them!

Just a postscript. Who would have thought that the wedding reception or party would end up being so fraught! I am probably not the only one who thought, like Edna, that it would be a jolly affair and an excuse have more fun and high jinks! As veterans of BBM and the Laramie Saga, we should have known better!

Here are my simple thoughts as I too tried skip my own wedding reception ( without success).
Nothing new, right, maybe more my feeling about it than Ennis’s.

To marry Ellery, as term “marry” itself “ is tool( as for all of us)for Ennis  how to prove Ellery what he actually said and is constantly repeating – “I’m yours.”, to prove the fact, the truth that he hadn’t been able to demonstrate almost by any way toward Jack.
 Ring and just illegal private wedding ceremony are on the top of his pedestal of importance while wedding reception for him-introvert compare to this is just simply superfluous show intruding his privacy maybe even lessening spirit of what he has done.

[MaineWriter]

LOL David!

It occurs to me that Ennis sometimes seems somewhat childlike in his need for physical comfort, almost like being held like a baby. (This is the other side of the coin to Ennis' stoic, silent masculinity but does it also represent going to the other extreme?) Ellery, the nurturer, acts the role of parent giving the comfort sought.

Again, at the risk of rocking the boat, it may be that sometimes intimate relationships can infantalise us to some degree and the parent/child, rescuer/dependent roles are easily fallen into. Do the benefits of Ellery's emotional satisfaction in providing comfort and Ennis' emotional relief in receiving comfort outweigh the costs of incurring the hurt and guilt resulting from their recent exchange?

True, Jo, but there are lots of times when Ennis takes on the role of nurturer...combing Ellery's hair as the most obvious example. He has also taken on the lion's share of household chores: cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, etc.  I see this as very nurturing, creating a home for the two of them.

In my mind, it is important to remember that they have come from very challenging backgrounds: both motherless at very young ages, having experienced a number of difficult (perhaps even dysfunctional?) relationships. Even though they are both middle-aged men, emotionally, they are, at times, very young and turn to each other for some very desparately needed comfort, support, and love.

As Ellery has said many times, he is learning to love for the first time, and they are both learning how to negotiate and support a relationship.

Leslie

[magicmountain]

Thanks for that mature and insightful response Leslie. Everything you say is true. They are babes in the wood clinging to each other for support. God that thought really pushes my emotional buttons!

[Bigheart]

Thanks for that mature and insightful response Leslie. Everything you say is true. They are babes in the wood clinging to each other for support. God that thought really pushes my emotional buttons!

and mine!

Thank you so much, Jo, Marie and Leslie for all your wonderful, thoughtful posts  They are all so helpful to me 

[David]

<listens for the sound of Louise typing>