Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Jack and Alma Jr.- Parallels?
Front-Ranger:
I have a different take on this. Rather than Alma Jr., isn't Jr. actually Ennis Jr.? That is, she takes after Ennis, but she has learned from observing him and the times are different, so she represents the hope and the future of Ennis. The one who reminds me of Jack is Jenny--she of the asthmatic wheeze, the one who Ennis grabs and comforts, the singer, and the one who doesn't appear again after Jack dies.
She is also the one whose ear Ennis pulls as he said, "I didn't have no wings." She's his little darlin.
welliwont:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on December 31, 2006, 12:24:28 pm ---
Ennis' problems, like most intractible problems that can cripple a person's life, cannot be overcome just by "striving" and trying hard. This is a person who has spent his life cut off from connections to other people one way or another. Yes, he does deny himself happiness but to simply dismiss that as being 'a goof' is equivalent to saying that someone who has a problem with stuttering is lazy and doesn't care about communicating clearly because "after all, all he has to do is stop stuttering."
--- End quote ---
Sorry, I don't agree. The topic I am discussing is why won't Ennis allow his beloved daughter to live with him? that's it. Ennis is a functioning person, he has a job, he goes to work, he is not a totally dysfunctional person. Yes he has issues about being gay, self denial, etc etc. I don't think that those problems are an excuse for refusing to live with Alma Jr. I am not explaining this as well as I would like to, oh well.
Yes I agree that his issues are blocking him from having the sweet life with Jack. I already don't think he should stay mired in his issues, but I have already argued that point in the past, and I have my opinion, you have yours.
PS:
--- Quote from: JakeTwist on December 30, 2006, 12:55:02 pm ---
Am I thick?? ??? ???
--- End quote ---
that was a rhetorical question BTW, Marge, but you are entitled to your opinion. Since you don't really know me, you don't really have an informed opinion about that.
fernly:
--- Quote from: Front-Ranger ---I have a different take on this. Rather than Alma Jr., isn't Jr. actually Ennis Jr.? That is, she takes after Ennis, but she has learned from observing him and the times are different, so she represents the hope and the future of Ennis. The one who reminds me of Jack is Jenny--she of the asthmatic wheeze, the one who Ennis grabs and comforts, the singer, and the one who doesn't appear again after Jack dies.
She is also the one whose ear Ennis pulls as he said, "I didn't have no wings." She's his little darlin.
--- End quote ---
Makes sense. Beautifully said.
Oh, geeze, Lee, "the one who doesn't appear again after Jack dies." I'd always wondered about that. No wonder Jenny 'disappearing' reasonated.
Maybe another way that Jr. takes after Ennis...by the time she tells him about the wedding, seems like it's been planned for quite a while. I wonder if she put off telling her dad, worried, (same as he was to tell Jack about August), expecting Ennis to say exactly what he did at first, that he couldn't.
But I've always thought that her brilliant smile, when Ennis says he will, is what Jack's smile would have looked like, if Ennis had said yes to him.
Ennis was right, he didn't have wings, did he? Had them torn off by his father. Then folded Jack's wings for him in the wild columbine, doing what his daddy taught him to do (that long, rather oblique speech in the story 'explaining' the punch). Ennis couldn't see a way to fly, soon enough, even though I try to believe he would have, given more time with Jack after their confrontation.
nakymaton:
And for more Ennis/Alma Jr. parallels, there's "This Kurt fellow... does he love you?" I've always thought that Ennis was thinking of Jack loving him... and then he gives 19-year-old Junior the permission that he was never able to give himself.
And to Jane... I think that the fact that Ennis won't let Alma Jr live with him was another sign of how tangled up Ennis was inside. It took Jack's death to push him towards any sort of change, even something as little as going to his beloved daughter's wedding. Ennis is a mess. It's not a good way to be, but I find it understandable, if tragic.
welliwont:
--- Quote from: nakymaton on December 31, 2006, 02:53:20 pm ---
And to Jane... I think that the fact that Ennis won't let Alma Jr live with him was another sign of how tangled up Ennis was inside. It took Jack's death to push him towards any sort of change, even something as little as going to his beloved daughter's wedding. Ennis is a mess. It's not a good way to be, but I find it understandable, if tragic.
--- End quote ---
Ah Mel, always the stellar articulator! ;) :-* Just so dam good at explainin', you even make me understand better what I am trying to say! :o
Ennis was a mess. yep, you are dead right there. The question is, how much of a mess, and how paralytic were his issues? I can certainly understand what you are saying and we have all discussed this before, and some of you fellow Brokies make such convincing arguments to me for this state of affairs: How much, how badly how extensively Ennis was affected by the Earl tragedy. Hell you all can make me see the logic so much that I almost agree with you.
But then, two months later, when the question comes up again, my gut feeling is still about the same as it was before. I just don't give Ennis a pass for all his shit actions. Such as denying Alma Jr to live with him. I think this is based on degree of willingness to forgive. You guys will forgive Ennis for way more than I will. I personally do not feel that he gets a blanket Get Out Of Jail Free Card for the way he treated JAck, Alma Jr, and do not forget his girlfriend of five years Cassie!!! :-\
But I can appreciate that you guys are more forgiving of Ennis.
Happy New Year to all my discussion buddies at BetterMost! :-* :-* :-*
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