A Ninth Viewing Observation

[ednbarby]

Yes, Barbara.  Once for each of us who says "yes"...Doug

That's two so far, then, 'cause I counted myself, too. 

[ednbarby]

Yeah, so what in the hell ever did happen to poor ol' Randall?  Didn't this thread start out being about Randall....

 

In a manner of speaking, yes, it did.  What ever did happen to Randall?  And just how serious was Jack about him, anyway?  My take is that it was never more serious for Jack than just sex, but did Randall want more?  We can only conjecture.  But hell, who wouldn't?

[jpwagoneer1964]

In a manner of speaking, yes, it did.  What ever did happen to Randall?  And just how serious was Jack about him, anyway?  My take is that it was never more serious for Jack than just sex, but did Randall want more?  We can only conjecture.  But hell, who wouldn't?

I'm in the camp that Randall was never more than an option for Jack. Jack does not respond ouside the dance hall, just wishes he weer Ennis.

[Jeff Wrangler]

In a manner of speaking, yes, it did.  What ever did happen to Randall?  And just how serious was Jack about him, anyway?  My take is that it was never more serious for Jack than just sex, but did Randall want more?  We can only conjecture.  But hell, who wouldn't?

Funny Randall should come up. I was thinking about Jack and him today. Working out clears my head something wonderful, and while I was working out today I was thinking, was Jack really serious when he talked about bringing the ranch neighbor from Texas up to Lightning Flat? Maybe my final conclusion on that is, yes and no.

I'm thinking now that Jack was just thinking out loud when he said that to his father, like when he suggested to Ennis that Ennis leave Riverton, try somewhere else, maybe Texas. After the confrontation at the lake, Jack was hurting, he was frustrated, probably he was emotionally exhausted, and he finally understood that Ennis was never going to agree to the two of them living together.

Yes, Jack was serious, when he was thinking out loud, but in the end, I think he just loved Ennis too much (ref: the shirts still in the closet). Once he got back to Texas, I don't think he would have "proposed" to Randall the way he did to Ennis back in '67. So in that sense, no, he wasn't serious.

But as always with this film, there is some open space between what I know, and what I want to believe. ...

[nakymaton]

I've wondered whether Jack's comments about bringing somebody to the ranch (both in Ennis's and Randall's cases) were spontaneous responses to Old Man Twist's complaints about Jack being away, not having any help, yadda yadda nag nag. (After all, Jack didn't have serious plans about bringing Ennis to the ranch, either. Ennis had already essentially said no.) And so... spontaneous, child mouthing off to parent, partly serious, but partly just an attempt to get dad to shut up already.

[ednbarby]

I've wondered whether Jack's comments about bringing somebody to the ranch (both in Ennis's and Randall's cases) were spontaneous responses to Old Man Twist's complaints about Jack being away, not having any help, yadda yadda nag nag. (After all, Jack didn't have serious plans about bringing Ennis to the ranch, either. Ennis had already essentially said no.) And so... spontaneous, child mouthing off to parent, partly serious, but partly just an attempt to get dad to shut up already.

Along these lines, here's how I see it:  After their last time together at the lake, Jack goes up to Lightning Flat, just aching inside, not unlike that time he went up there after the summer on Brokeback.  But now he's aching and broken.  He hears the usual shit from Old Man Twist.  And during one of their many arguments, OMT says something like, "Whatever happened to the Great and Powerful Ennis del Mar - the one who was gonna help you 'lick this ranch into shape?'  Just another one o' yer half-baked ideas, I guess."  And Jack retorts with something more to himself than to his father, like "Yeah, well, the hell with him.  I know another guy - a ranch neighbor of mine in Childress - who *wants* to come up here and do that with me.  This Spring, I may just take him up on it."

But I agree - it was just him thinking out loud - wanting to shut his father - and his own heart - up once and for all.

[dly64]

But I agree - it was just him thinking out loud - wanting to shut his father - and his own heart - up once and for all.

That would be my hope, but who knows? Certainly Jack was frustrated. But, like many of you, I see Randall as a hard dick to help satisfy Jack’s sexual needs. That sounds a bit harsh … they may have been companions. But Randall was no Ennis. Whether or not Jack was going to break off his relationship with Ennis has been the topic of other threads and has provoked much discussion. However, no matter where you may fall on that issue (i.e. would Jack “quit” Ennis) … I think we can all be in agreement that Randall would not even come close to filling Jack’s emotional needs. Only Ennis could do that.

[serious crayons]

And during one of their many arguments, OMT says something like, "Whatever happened to the Great and Powerful Ennis del Mar - the one who was gonna help you 'lick this ranch into shape?'  Just another one o' yer half-baked ideas, I guess."  And Jack retorts with something more to himself than to his father, like "Yeah, well, the hell with him.  I know another guy - a ranch neighbor of mine in Childress - who *wants* to come up here and do that with me.  This Spring, I may just take him up on it."

But I agree - it was just him thinking out loud - wanting to shut his father - and his own heart - up once and for all.

Excellent conjecture, Barb! I'll go along with that.

(After all, Jack didn't have serious plans about bringing Ennis to the ranch, either. Ennis had already essentially said no.)

I think of him as being more serious about Ennis. Sure, Ennis had said no, but Jack kept thinking circumstances would change and Ennis would change his mind.

Or maybe he told his dad about because he missed Ennis so much he could hardly stand it and just needed to talk about Ennis in a semi-honest way -- that is, tacitly acknowledging the romantic part of their relationship -- to someone!

[Jeff Wrangler]

That would be my hope, but who knows? Certainly Jack was frustrated. But, like many of you, I see Randall as a hard dick to help satisfy Jack’s sexual needs. That sounds a bit harsh … they may have been companions. But Randall was no Ennis. Whether or not Jack was going to break off his relationship with Ennis has been the topic of other threads and has provoked much discussion. However, no matter where you may fall on that issue (i.e. would Jack “quit” Ennis) … I think we can all be in agreement that Randall would not even come close to filling Jack’s emotional needs. Only Ennis could do that.

And let's not forget, maybe to Randall, Jack was just a hard dick to help satisfy his (Randall's) sexual needs.

[dly64]

And let's not forget, maybe to Randall, Jack was just a hard dick to help satisfy his (Randall's) sexual needs.

True ... very true! Certainly that is one angle that I have never considered!