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What’s the sub context of “Nature vs Nurture” discussion?

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JennyC:
The “Nature vs Nurture” thread on BBM is going strong with over 350 posts.  I have gotten into discussion with some Christian friends a few times on this topic.  I get the arguments presented by both sides. Personally I just want to say “why does it matter”.  Hopefully most of the people here agree it does not matter whether homosexuality is nature or nurture.  But that is not the question I want to ask.

My question is What is the sub context or agenda of “Nature vs Nurture” discussion or where does this discussion lead us to. Is this just an academic research topic, or different groups (let it be pro or anti gay rights, religious right, conservative, liberal, etc.) are trying to prove something with this discussion?  What’s the logic here?

I wanted to ask the question for sometime, but never worked up the courage to ask on BBM board.  I think Chez Tremblay is a much peaceful place, so I am going to put it out here for you intelligent bunch to educate me.

littleguitar:
I think part of the hesitancy to call it nurture comes from the idea that "nurture" implies something social, so something you would have a choice in whether or not to participate.  It is similar in feminist arguments.  Many feminists are hesitant to say women have a "feminine" nature or that there are biological differences between men and women because, to the wrong person, this could be used as proof that women should be subordinate.  I would think that for those who are against gay rights or are homophobic, saying that homosexuality is not nature would be a way for them to try and prove homosexuality is wrong.

I hope that was actually some sort of an answer to your question!

starboardlight:
I agree with you. I think it's besides the point. If a straight woman wants to have a relationship with another woman, it's her rights to "choose" to do so. As long as the two partners are consenting adults who are blood relatives, there's no harm to society.

I think the agenda is that many gay men and women want to argue nature, because their sexuality is something they didn't choose. They therefore shouldn't be discriminated against because of it. The religious right want to argue nurture because if it's not an inborn trait, it can there fore be changed.

All of that is really besides the point, imo. If you think about there are thing that are part of our genetics and we go ahead and changed or treat them, and there are traits that are not part of our genetic make up that we know better than to mess with. The only thing that concern me is that two people who love each other should have the freedom to do so.

delalluvia:

--- Quote from: starboardlight on April 17, 2006, 10:13:20 pm ---I agree with you. I think it's besides the point. If a straight woman wants to have a relationship with another woman, it's her rights to "choose" to do so. As long as the two partners are consenting adults who are blood relatives, there's no harm to society.

I think the agenda is that many gay men and women want to argue nature, because their sexuality is something they didn't choose. They therefore shouldn't be discriminated against because of it. The religious right want to argue nurture because if it's not an inborn trait, it can there fore be changed.

All of that is really besides the point, imo. If you think about there are thing that are part of our genetics and we go ahead and changed or treat them, and there are traits that are not part of our genetic make up that we know better than to mess with. The only thing that concern me is that two people who love each other should have the freedom to do so.

--- End quote ---

Scarily, the latest I'm hearing from the far right is that if being gay is 'genetic' then they hope genetic research will progress rapidly and isolate the 'gay gene' so that it can be excised from people or some sort of gene therapy developed so that this 'abnormality' can be 'fixed'.

At brunch yesterday, I told this to a bi/lesbian friend of mine and she looked askance at me.  'What if we don't want to be "fixed"?'

Then another friend of mine reminded me of a Star Trek episode that was eeriely familiar.  About a gender neutral society that frowned on heterosexual or homosexual relationships.  One member fell in love with the Riker character and began to develop 'female' traits. 

They 'fixed' her.  And she thanked them for it.   :o

More recently, the newest X-Men movie has one plotline about a mutant whose father is wealthy enough and either wants to develop or has started to develop a 'cure' for mutants.

The X-Men movies have always been about discrimination.  Would taking a 'pill' fix that?  Or are humans just sneetches and we would find something else to discriminate against?

Kd5000:
Getting back to the initial post...

Well the Christian folk who now in the nature vs nurture thing, huh?... Many fundamentalists still believe that ppl willed theymselves or were "corrupted," recruited, etc into being gay. The Catholic church says it's a "condition."   I presume they would quietly add the word "mental" in front of condition if pushed.

Personally, I believe it's 98% genetic and 2% social factors which no one seems clear about. Oh, they've mapped the human genome, but a geneticist told me they will spend the rest of this century trying to figure out what those genes do...

The movie seems to sorta imply a nurture thing with Jack and Ennis both having distant (that might be to kind to describe Jack's dad) fathers. Don't really know about Ennis's father but the nurture debate would say EARLY childhood influences (when Ennis's dad was alive) influence sexual orientation. 

However there are many gay men who come from high functioning families and there are many straight men who come from a household without a father present. I would presume the same would apply for gay and straight women. The Cheney household might give me pause for thought, though. :)

350 posts, hah. Gawd, how can a thread get that long?

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