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What’s the sub context of “Nature vs Nurture” discussion?

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JennyC:
Thanks for offering your opinion on this topic.  Needless to say that we are all pretty much on the same page here.  I am just playing devil’s advocate here as I really want to get to the bottom of this topic.


--- Quote from: littleguitar on April 17, 2006, 09:20:23 pm --- I would think that for those who are against gay rights or are homophobic, saying that homosexuality is not nature would be a way for them to try and prove homosexuality is wrong.

--- End quote ---
That argument won’t really hold up, would it?  Not everything natural is right, not everything unnatural is wrong.  Religion itself is nurture rather than nature.  I don’t think a person is born to be religious; it’s a choice you make to believe in whatever religion you believe in.  Why it’s ok in some instances, but not others? Why the double standard?


--- Quote from: starboardlight on April 17, 2006, 10:13:20 pm ---I think the agenda is that many gay men and women want to argue nature, because their sexuality is something they didn't choose. They therefore shouldn't be discriminated against because of it.
 
--- End quote ---
Does that imply that for the gay men and women who choose to be (rather than born to be) homosexual, they then should be discriminated because of their choice?  I don’t really see the benefit for gay community from this discussion.  If just purely to educate the public, that’s fine.  But I don’t think there is any political gain here unless you can prove that all homosexual are nature, not nurture, which we all know it’s a hard sell.  You can not use the argument to protect the majority (born to be homosexual) while abandoning the minority (choose to be), however a small percentage that may be.


--- Quote from: delalluvia on April 17, 2006, 10:44:54 pm ---Scarily, the latest I'm hearing from the far right is that if being gay is 'genetic' then they hope genetic research will progress rapidly and isolate the 'gay gene' so that it can be excised from people or some sort of gene therapy developed so that this 'abnormality' can be 'fixed'.

--- End quote ---
This is something new.  So far right thinks that being gay is ‘genetic’.  Then great, it’s given by god, by our creator, why should we attempt to fix it?  It’s not some disease that people can die because of it.  Just like some people are right-handed, and some are left-handed, why fix it?

Shuggy:
Even to ask what causes homosexuality is homophobic if you don't ask at the same time what causes heterosexuality. We don't really know what attracts men to women or women to men. (A different question from what purpose that serves.) Many strait men (especially) can't even get this question, and will try to explain their attraction as if women's attractiveness compared to men was somehow innate, leaving no explanation for men's attractiveness to strait women. When a teenager gets lusty about a teenager of the opposite sex, the last thing on their mind is "if we do this, we may have children". On the contrary!

Homophobes keep asking "What causes homosexuality?" with a view to asking "How can we cure it?" Eugenically if genetic, through ever stricter upbringing, I suppose, if it is nurture.

I like to answer "Neither, it's a Gift from God!" just to annoy them.

delalluvia:

--- Quote ---Scarily, the latest I'm hearing from the far right is that if being gay is 'genetic' then they hope genetic research will progress rapidly and isolate the 'gay gene' so that it can be excised from people or some sort of gene therapy developed so that this 'abnormality' can be 'fixed'.
--- End quote ---

This is something new.  So far right thinks that being gay is ‘genetic’.

SOME right wingers are drifting toward that idea, not all. 

Then great, it’s given by god, by our creator, why should we attempt to fix it?

Because people want to 'fix' things all the time.

It’s not some disease that people can die because of it.  Just like some people are right-handed, and some are left-handed, why fix it?

Being born with one less limb or autistic or infertile doesn't kill anyone either, but they sure want those fixed.  In fact infertility is one of the most 'creator given' gifts that no one thinks is a gift and they want to change.  One African man whose wife had fertility treatments and gave birth to multiple children told the media that this was 'god's will'.  However, IMO his wife being infertile in the first place seemed more 'natural' and 'god's will' but he had no problem ignoring that.

Crazed right wingers really do think homosexuality is a defect, a bad one and one that needs 'fixing' so I'm sure they would want such 'therapy'.

JennyC:

--- Quote from: delalluvia on April 19, 2006, 08:23:55 am ---
Being born with one less limb or autistic or infertile doesn't kill anyone either, but they sure want those fixed.  In fact infertility is one of the most 'creator given' gifts that no one thinks is a gift and they want to change.
...
Crazed right wingers really do think homosexuality is a defect, a bad one and one that needs 'fixing' so I'm sure they would want such 'therapy'.

--- End quote ---

Del,

You are right, guess have to add a lot of disclaimer as to what kind of 'genetic defect' that we should just let it be.  I wonder if our talkative bunch also suffer some 'genetic defect'  ;).  [sigh]  If someone really thinks there is something wrong because you feel attractive to, sexuality intimate with, and/or love a person with the same gender as you, that's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.

JennyC:

--- Quote from: Shuggy on April 19, 2006, 05:52:39 am ---Even to ask what causes homosexuality is homophobic if you don't ask at the same time what causes heterosexuality.

--- End quote ---

Well put, Shuggy.

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