Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
Mandatory Viewing
rtprod:
Okay guys, I'm preparing for the onslaught.
Lemme have it. :o
rt
delalluvia:
Hiya rtprod
--- Quote from: rtprod on April 25, 2006, 02:19:49 pm ---Whoah, let's back up here.
Can someone please tell me where all these supposed fictions lie in F 9-11? There's only so much "spin" one can put on certain facts that speak loud and clear when they are caught like deer in headlights on camera in an elementary school class.
--- End quote ---
This is what I was sent:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
--- Quote ---I stick to my point that there is a big difference bewteen manipulation and having a point of view, and Michael Moore has a point of view. The same could be said that Leni Reifenstahl had specific point of view with her classic documentary The Triumph of the Will, which glorified the Nazi party and was propoganda. It's a classic, and it lies about and glamorizes its subject, but it's one of the best documentaries of all time. The point--she was Hitler's friend and it was her point of view.
--- End quote ---
In film, having a POV and manipulation is the same thing, IMO. In order to show your POV, you necessarily have to leave out many other PsOV in order to focus on your own. It's still manipulation.
This was discussed about MM when 'Bowling for Columbine' first came out. The response? Good documentary films/filmmakers are objective.
That leaves the rest and includes MM.
--- Quote ---Who discussed this and issued the final verdict?
--- End quote ---
There is no final verdict. Merely opinion.
--- Quote ---The belief that F-9/11 has been debunked is mystifying,
--- End quote ---
See the above link.
--- Quote ---as most I know consider it a great film and the criticism of it a knee-jerk reactionary and obvious scramble on the part of the right to save a very pale face.
--- End quote ---
Mmm, guess it depends on where you live, rt. Here in Texas, MM is a joke. His movie was ripped to shreds and he was forced to backpedal on his facts. I DO live in Dubya-land. >:(
--- Quote ---I believe it won an Oscar
--- End quote ---
Which meant something important to me - before BBM lost Best Picture and we - as Jane Q. Public - found out exactly who and what made up the 'Academy'.
--- Quote ---made 120 million and deeply affected most people in this country who saw it. It is, on the whole, factually correct though the quibblers who like to take everything down, from A Beautiful Mind to The Hurricane, will find fault and defense.
--- End quote ---
It deeply affected many people - both positively and negatively. Where I'm standing, it didn't help the liberal cause at all. .
--- Quote ---Everyone can't be playing fast and loose now can they?????????
--- End quote ---
Unless we have someone making a documentary/news report who has a reputation of being impartial and objective, then I'd answer - sadly - yes they can.
Front-Ranger:
Don't bunker down too far, rt. I think yr singing to the choir, and a heavenly music it makes.
As for defending MM to the rabid republicans, don't bother. They're not rational beings.
The definition of a documentary is, as I recall from film class, having as its subject matter something that actually happened or is happening. There is no way a documentary or any work that humans produce can be objective. You have to point your camera somewhere. You can't point it at everything. The only way something can even approach objectivity is if you tell one side of a story, then another side of the story, then another, then another. This was the subject of the film Rashomon.
JCinNYC2006:
I love Michael Moore's work because it generates debate and discussion. Yeah, it can also motivate a lot of anger and can be manipulative in the sense that he has some foregone conclusions to make. But whether you agree with them or not is still up to the viewer.
I don't take everything he says as 100% accurate, and I will read critiques of his movies. Skimming through the link posted (the Dave Kopel one), many of the rebuttals boil down to "both sides do this, not just Bush", although I don't think Moore is so fond of Democrats either. I did idealize him more before F911, but after reading some criticisms of Bowling For Columbine, I readjusted my expectations and try to be more discerning.
I don't want to be manipulated by Moore and I definitely don't want to be manipulated by Bush, but ultimately the lies told by this administration affect me much more in my day to day life. Anyone who is interested in at least opening people's eyes gets a listen from me. I especially love the George Orwell quote he uses at the end of F911: "The war is not meant to be won—it is meant to be continuous." I can't wait for his next movie.
Juan
JennyC:
--- Quote from: rtprod on April 25, 2006, 02:52:55 pm ---Okay guys, I'm preparing for the onslaught.
Lemme have it. :o
rt
--- End quote ---
Why would you? No argument from me ;D , and I suspect that a lot of people here feel the same at least on some of your points (except the objectivity on Documentary that is ;) ) You just said what many felt. No one is going to slaughter you for speaking your mind.
Isn't this what makes this group of people so wonderful? People here can engage in discussion with respect and maturity given our differences. Sometime the discussion can be heated, but worst to worst, we can always fall back on at least one common ground we have. ;)
I do want to elaborate on why I think objectivity on documentary is important, it involves a documentary on Kennedy’s assassination. I will have to come back on that later.
p.s. This is a great discussion, but are we hijacking the initial thread for "Mandatory Viewing"? I would recommend moving the discussion elsewhere, but I know the moment we move, the momentum will die.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version