Our BetterMost Community > The Polling Place
Your age and your favourite cowboy
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on May 20, 2006, 06:17:32 pm ---Jack has no big faults, makes no big mistakes
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I think Jack makes mistakes... I think he pushes way too fast to live together. I get angry at him during the "prayer of thanks" scene because his cow and calf operation proposal fills that nice moment with tons of pressure. I think he's right about the idea of living together and here he's being his normal "sweet" self in making the suggestion, but I do think it's a miscalculation to suggest it so soon. Generally, I think Jack is very smart when it comes to dealing with Ennis (from early moments of flirting to the hug after the argument at the end), but he should have realized that they had *just* gotten back together and probably should have just enjoyed the moment. I also think it was a mistake to drive all the way to Wyoming to meet Ennis during the horrible post-divorce scene. His excitement and enthusiasm got the better of him here. You'd think he would know Ennis probably wouldn't be so happy about the surpise visit and certainly wouldn't be happy to know that Jack has asked 10 people in Riverton about Ennis. It only took the white truck to snap Jack back into the reality of Ennis's worries. Still, these are a few pretty big miscalculations, but they speak to Jack's overall optimism.
Ennis has "fatal flaws" or "tragic flaws", as in the mechanisms at work on characters in Greek tragedies. His worries, fears and anxieties are on an epic level. Jack's flaws may be a bit less dramatic, but he does have them. He may be optimistic to a fault (but isn't that cute too?).
:-\ :'(
Rayn:
Yes, I agree atz75 ...
Both characters have flaws and faults. They are so wonderfully human. Jack, poor Jack does want too much too soon, but only because circumstances and Ennis' fears make it so.
I see him as "The Ideal" that balances "The Real" in Ennis. That is what makes good drama though, tension between characters, conflict, crisis and resolution.
I do feel sad for both of them, but at least they tried to make the best of it. They worked with each other and the times to keep a relationship going for many years. That's not easy for anyone, but much more difficult for gay men.
The hardest thing for me, because I am very much like Jack, is to see Ennis calling most of the shots because so much of how Ennis thinks and feels is based on his fears. Reality is very hard on Ideals. The two working against and with each other give us human life; give us "Brokeback Mountain".
Rayn
serious crayons:
--- Quote ---I think Jack makes mistakes.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Both characters have flaws and faults.
--- End quote ---
Well, sure! I didn't mean to characterize Jack as absolutely perfect. He does make some mistakes -- and the one you mention, Amanda, in the "prayer of thanks" scene is a good example I hadn't even thought of before. What I meant, and maybe telescoped too much for brevity's sake, is that he didn't make any BIG mistakes or have any BIG flaws, at least none on par with Ennis' epic-scale ones. Unlike Ennis, he can't be blamed for the movie's central tragedy. The main point being that Ennis is harder to defend.
Rayn:
I don't see how Ennis can "be blamed for the movie's central tragedy", I mean what if he had taken up with Jack and they'd lived together? Look at what happened to Earle and Rich! And in their case, we know for sure what happened to Earle! Had Ennis and Jack lived together, tragedy still could have happened to either of them.
That's life, don't ya think?
Rayn
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Rayn on May 21, 2006, 11:55:18 am ---I don't see how Ennis can "be blamed for the movie's central tragedy", I mean what if he had taken up with Jack and they'd lived together? Look at what happened to Earle and Rich! And in their case, we know for sure what happened to Earle! Had Ennis and Jack lived together, tragedy still could have happened to either of them.
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Rayn, are you saying you think Ennis made the right choice in rejecting Jack's idea?
Others may see it differently, but I consider the movie's central tragedy to be Ennis' decision to play by society's rules rather than spend his life with Jack, and his reaching a full appreciation of their relationship only after it was too late. Sure, living together could have been dangerous. But Jack ended up dead, anyway -- regardless of which way he died, Ennis' decision didn't keep Jack from harm.
So yeah, there were situations Jack could have handled better. In addition to the one Amanda mentioned, I would add his nonchallant demeanor when they were leaving the mountain. But those miscalculations are pretty small potatoes compared to Ennis making a choice that ultimately ruined both their lives (and wasn't great for their wives, either).
This is so ironic -- there are SO many posts criticizing Ennis for this or that and they ALWAYS make me feel bad for him and want to defend him. Ennis did what he believed was the right thing, gave Jack the most of himself that he felt he could, took what by his standards were big risks, struggled with homophobia but never let it keep him from showing love and affection toward Jack. I am a huge Ennis apologist. Yet here I am criticizing him and defending Jack, only because I do believe that ultimately Ennis' mistakes and faults were greater and more damaging.
Maybe the next poll should be, Who is more at fault for the movie's central tragedy, Ennis or Jack? Of course, the correct answer is C, "society."
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