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I did once (have a better idea)... to go to Mexico???
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: opinionista on April 24, 2006, 08:23:49 am ---But Ennis doesn't register why Jack is really angry about until he hears him says "I did once" in a bitter tone, meaning that proposition to put up a ranch together. At that moment Ennis realizes Jack is actually mad at him for not wanting to commit. He also realizes what Jack meant by mentioning Mexico.
--- End quote ---
This is interesting because the more I think about it, the weirder it seems that Ennis gets angry with Jack at this point. I partially agree with the suggestions about deflecting blame and maybe even there's guilt or fear of losing Jack, but Ennis' anger is all about Jack being gay and Ennis being willing to kill him for it. There may be guilt/fear mixed in there, but this is an explosion about Ennis not willing to accept that he is in a gay relationship with Jack. As far as he is concerned, he's still not moved passed the "I'm not queer" scene. He's very focussed, very specific.
I think it is this that made me doubt the dialogue progression in the first place.
opinionista:
--- Quote from: Aussie Chris on April 24, 2006, 08:36:52 am ---
--- Quote from: opinionista on April 24, 2006, 08:23:49 am ---But Ennis doesn't register why Jack is really angry about until he hears him says "I did once" in a bitter tone, meaning that proposition to put up a ranch together. At that moment Ennis realizes Jack is actually mad at him for not wanting to commit. He also realizes what Jack meant by mentioning Mexico.
--- End quote ---
This is interesting because the more I think about it, the weirder it seems that Ennis gets angry with Jack at this point. I partially agree with the suggestions about deflecting blame and maybe even there's guilt or fear of losing Jack, but Ennis' anger is all about Jack being gay and Ennis being willing to kill him for it. There may be guilt/fear mixed in there, but this is an explosion about Ennis not willing to accept that he is in a gay relationship with Jack. As far as he is concerned, he's still not moved passed the "I'm not queer" scene. He's very focussed, very specific.
I think it is this that made me doubt the dialogue progression in the first place.
--- End quote ---
I agree that part of the reason why Ennis explodes and threatens to kill Jack has to do with his inability to accept his true self. But I think the whole scene is more about their relationship coming to an end than it is about Ennis dealing with his sexuality. After the divorce part, when Jack drives all the way to Wyoming for nothing, Jack’s mood changes considerably. He’s bitter and sad, and Ennis notices it. He knows Jack has changed, which is why I think Ennis doesn’t say anything about the August meeting until they’re about to leave. He senses he stands a chance to lose Jack which gets confirmed when Jack yells at him and says he wishes he knew how to quit him. In fact, Jack’s entire dialogue is really about breaking up, which is why Ennis makes a big deal out of the Mexico trip. By deflecting the blame Ennis attempts to make Jack feel bad so he wont break up. This is how I see it
serious crayons:
I agree with Opinionista. When Jack mentions Mexico, it reminds Ennis of what he has heard about Mexico (where he would have heard this, I have no idea -- I can't imagine Ennis, say, shooting the breeze with his fellow ranch hands about good places to go for gay prostitutes -- but let's chalk it up to literary license). This arouses Ennis' suspicions, which maybe even already existed, that Jack has strayed. But Ennis lets it pass for the moment, still hoping to get Jack to lighten up on him.
But when Jack issues that devastating "I did, ONCE," coupled with his already grim demeanor that day, Ennis gets scared. Hell, I got scared at this point! Jack has always held out the possibility of them living together, and even though Ennis wouldn't take him up on it, he was probably comforted to know Jack still wanted it. Now, Jack is putting it in past tense, as if no longer interested in doing that. Ennis detects in Jack's tone a signal that Jack may be getting sick of this, and it terrifies him.
And, as usual when Ennis is afraid or upset, he expresses it by lashing out in anger. So he seizes on the Mexico thing to throw back at Jack. We always argue about whether Ennis is angry about Mexico because he's jealous of Jack with other men or angry because it forces him to acknowledge their mutual gayness. Personally, I think it is more the former. To me, the way he says "boys like you" suggests he has accepted, to some degree, what kind of boy Jack is (even if it implies something, by extension, about himself -- unlike Chris, I think Ennis has moved somewhat, though not completely, beyond the "I'm not queer" stage). And I think that Ennis, though unconcerned about Jack's involvement with women, takes his involvement with other men much more seriously (making John Twist's later revelation about Randall that much more painful). Anyway, threatening to kill Jack seems a bit over the top, but Ennis is angry and, with him, that entails violence.
DeeDee:
--- Quote from: latjoreme on April 24, 2006, 01:15:59 pm ---I agree with Opinionista. When Jack mentions Mexico, it reminds Ennis of what he has heard about Mexico (where he would have heard this, I have no idea -- I can't imagine Ennis, say, shooting the breeze with his fellow ranch hands about good places to go for gay prostitutes -- but let's chalk it up to literary license). This arouses Ennis' suspicions, which maybe even already existed, that Jack has strayed. But Ennis lets it pass for the moment, still hoping to get Jack to lighten up on him.
But when Jack issues that devastating "I did, ONCE," coupled with his already grim demeanor that day, Ennis gets scared. Hell, I got scared at this point! Jack has always held out the possibility of them living together, and even though Ennis wouldn't take him up on it, he was probably comforted to know Jack still wanted it. Now, Jack is putting it in past tense, as if no longer interested in doing that. Ennis detects in Jack's tone a signal that Jack may be getting sick of this, and it terrifies him.
And, as usual when Ennis is afraid or upset, he expresses it by lashing out in anger. So he seizes on the Mexico thing to throw back at Jack. We always argue about whether Ennis is angry about Mexico because he's jealous of Jack with other men or angry because it forces him to acknowledge their mutual gayness. Personally, I think it is more the former. To me, the way he says "boys like you" suggests he has accepted, to some degree, what kind of boy Jack is (even if it implies something, by extension, about himself -- unlike Chris, I think Ennis has moved somewhat, though not completely, beyond the "I'm not queer" stage). And I think that Ennis, though unconcerned about Jack's involvement with women, takes his involvement with other men much more seriously (making John Twist's later revelation about Randall that much more painful). Anyway, threatening to kill Jack seems a bit over the top, but Ennis is angry and, with him, that entails violence.
--- End quote ---
Out of everything that was mentioned, there's one line in that scene that just breaks my heart.
It's because of you, Jack I'm like this.
I cried when I heard that line. It just sound so sad and pathetic.
Brown Eyes:
Heya Aussie Chris,
Thanks for the nice post! I certainly enjoy reading your insights too. :D
Also, latjoreme, that's pretty much exactly how I read that scene too.
Ennis's anger, insecurities and jealousies here are actually all very touching to me, because they're examples of the "coded" ways that Ennis demonstrates his love and deep, deep emotion for Jack (without the overt use of the word, etc.). It's always been amazing to me that Ennis is so comfortable crying and totally letting loose with his emotions around Jack. For a "tough guy" Ennis is seen with tears in his eyes a surprisingly large number of times throughout the movie. In this scene even when he's making a show of pushing Jack away, you can just see he's desperate for Jack to reach out to him and comfort him. All of his accusations and threats, etc. seem to be a little bit like tests to make sure Jack will come around and comfort him like normal. And, they know each other well... of course Jack can't stay mad and comes and hugs Ennis even while ignoring Ennis's little push.
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