BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum

Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => All Things Brokeback: Books, Interviews and More => Topic started by: Toast on June 15, 2007, 10:51:52 am

Title: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Toast on June 15, 2007, 10:51:52 am: The InFamous Deleted Hippie Scene
Brokeback Mountain

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/Surprised.jpg)

EXT: BIG HORN MOUNTAINS, WYOMING: DAY: 1973:
ENNIS and JACK are horseback, trotting across a high meadow.
JACK fiddles with his rope. Ropes a sagebrush, then throws
it at a rabbit.
JACK
I wish we'd jump a coyote.
I'd love to rope a coyote.
ENNIS
(skeptical of Jack's prowess with the lariat)
I doubt I'll live to see that miracle....

They hear distant music, from over a nearby ridge: it's rock music.

JACK
Who's playing music way out here?

JACK
Who's playing music way out here?
They lope to the top of the ridge.

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/JacksLariat.jpg)

EXT: BIG HORN MOUNTAINS, WYOMING: DAY: CONTINUOUS: 1973:

ENNIS and JACK see a brightly painted VW bus going along a narrow little mountain road.
ENNIS
If it's a hippie, we ought to scalp him.
Up ahead of the bus, they see a creek, swollen from runoff. But the bus doesn't slow....

JACK
Can't that fool see the creek's in flood?

ENNIS
Probably high on drugs. May not have even
noticed that creek, music's too loud.

...and the bus, music blaring, heads right into the water. Makes it halfway across...stops, water at window-height. Yells are heard.

ENNIS and JACK lope down the ridge.

JACK
(drawing rein)
Hell, better go down and see what's what.

ENNIS
See if you can get a rope on the bumper.
I'll offload who I can.

The horses are none too keen to go into the water...but ENNIS and JACK insist, spur them in.

JACK gets to the rear of the bus--when he bends over to hook his rope through the bumper, his hat falls off and floats away.

ENNIS expertly gets his horse alongside the bus, looks inside to see a bearded, beaded Dead-head at the wheel, and two beautiful hippie coeds giggling, crowded together in the front seat.

HIPPIE
Guess I overestimated the power of the
bug, man!

Ennis holds out his arms.

ENNIS
Come on now, "through the window, girls
first...I can take the two of you
together.

The girls giggle at Ennis's unintended double-entendre.

GIRL 1
Thanks, man!

As she pushes her way out of through the window, we see her braless profile fall into Ennis's arms.

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/Ennissavinghippies.jpg)

Ennis ferries the girls back to shore, heads back to the van.

JACK, frustrated, rides back to shore, takes off his boots and wades back in with the rope, manages to get it over the bumper.

ENNIS goes over to help JACK, who is wading out.

JACK
(annoyed)
My hat's probably to Laramie by now.

ENNIS
(smiles)
Top hands ain't supposed to love their
hats.

JACK ignores this.

ENNIS rides around to the driver's side of the VW bus.

ENNIS
You might want to make sure you're in
reverse, mister.

The MAN gives ENNIS the peace sign.

HIPPIE
(sense of humour)
Sure, partner.

EXT: BIG HORN MOUNTAINS, WYOMING: CREEK: DAY: A FEW MINUTES LATER: 1973:

The man and the women are unpacking a picnic.

HIPPIE
Hey, break bread with us, western heroes.

ENNIS
Thanks, but we gotta make camp by
sundown.

GIRL 1
You sure? (seductive) We love to share.

HIPPIE
They do man. I'm cool with it.

GIRL 1
Whaddya think?

ENNIS
I suppose not. We'd best be going.

GIRL 2
You don't have to be hung up around us.

JACK
Thanks, but Ennis here, he's just pretty
well hung up.

Ennis shoots Jack a glance.

JACK ( CONT ' D)
But you all take care now.

Later: Jack and Ennis ride off, the hippies in the
background.

JACK
Hell, I guess I could a been a hippie, if
I'd had more education.

ENNIS
I don't like damn hippies. Un-American if
you ask me.

JACK
Yeah, you're pretty square, aren't you?
If they only knew just how square you
are!

They both laugh.

[From the 2004 Screenplay/Shooting Script]

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/HippiesJoyed.jpg)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Kelda on June 15, 2007, 11:42:01 am: bumping to find later.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: nic on June 15, 2007, 11:54:27 am: Oooh, thanks for posting that treat! I didn't know all of it before. Even though I think it is right not to include it in the film I can still see it being played out in my head & would dearly love to see it as a DVD extra. The bits that show the guys having fun together & joshing each other are priceless!

It definitely works better without it being in. As a whole it just feels awkward & without it, we have all their mountain time together uninterrupted - as it is in the short story I believe. A small thing but it makes it even more special & also just a little more poignant at the same time.

Thanks again - what a great way to end the working week :)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 15, 2007, 01:06:51 pm: Thanks for posting this, Toast, but now I sure am glad they didn't include it! What were they thinking?!

Really, in a movie in which every moment is meaningful on multiple levels, what function would this scene have served? It shows Ennis being untempted by the girls' offer, but other than that what do we get? Conservative political views I'd rather not hear about. An intrusion of "outside world" culture that the movie works better without. Inconsistency: Ennis scorns the hippies for being high on drugs, even though later we see him getting high on drugs himself.

And this:

JACK
Thanks, but Ennis here, he's just pretty
well hung up.

Is it a comment on Ennis' psyche, or a double-entendre about his physique?
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on June 15, 2007, 01:16:44 pm: Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 15, 2007, 01:06:51 pm
And this:

JACK
Thanks, but Ennis here, he's just pretty
well hung up.

Is it a comment on Ennis' psyche, or a double-entendre about his physique?

Probably both. That's why it's called a double-entendre. ;D

Seriously--much better to have left this out of the final cut.

Still--I wanna see it! It's Ennis and Jack together! I wanna see it! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: moremojo on June 15, 2007, 01:30:43 pm: Yep, the scene reads just as embarrassingly as I'm sure it plays out in the actual filmed sequence. I think it would have been a major flaw in the film had it been left in, which is probably one reason it has been omitted from all versions of the DVD so far.

Still, I would watch it at least once, for curiosity's sake. And, as Jeff aptly points out, it represents yet another of those too infrequent moments when we see our two "western heroes" ( ::)) together and happy to boot.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Fran on June 15, 2007, 03:52:47 pm: Hippies intruding on Jack and Ennis's limited time together? No way!

But I agree that it would be cool to see that scene as a DVD extra.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: mvansand76 on June 15, 2007, 04:12:10 pm: The dialogue is awful!!!!!!!

:o
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: ifyoucantfixit on June 15, 2007, 04:28:28 pm: True that Mel. I wonder if James Schamus wrote it? Since he is the one that supposedly campaigned for it to be included.??
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 15, 2007, 04:55:24 pm: Quote from: Snavel del Snuit on June 15, 2007, 04:12:10 pm
The dialogue is awful!!!!!!!

I agree! It's really unlike the dialogue in the rest of the movie.

All of the scenes that are in the actual movie but not in the short story add something. But this seems to subtract, not add.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:04:26 pm: I agree the scene was better left out of the film, but I would *love* to see it. Not only because both of the guys look good on horseback, either. ;)

Jack and Ennis, relaxed and comfortable with each other before the strain of years took too much of a toll. Jack and Ennis, bantering with each other and actually even engaging in some mild innuendo? You bet I'd like to see that, and to hear the "well hung up" comment, complete with that glance from Ennis. :P :)

I think showing them like that, in the early stage of their "fishing trips period", may have been the main purpose of the scene: Showing them still mainly happy and delighted in each other's company, while also a bit more mature and more confident in their relationship.

I think the hippies were there to demonstrate which time period the film had reached, plus to contrast the "summer of free love" lifestyle with J&E and their environment, where they so carefully still have to hide their love. I just can't believe the point of this was to show that our cowboys weren't interested in what the girls had on offer. We knew that. ::)

I've read this before so perhaps I've gotten used to the idea of this scene and its dialogue. At any rate, Pleeeeeeaaaase give us that DVD with the deleted scenes that we crave! Pretty please! (Where's the puppy-dog-eye icon?)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 15, 2007, 05:27:50 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:04:26 pm
I think the hippies were there to demonstrate which time period the film had reached, plus to contrast the "summer of free love" lifestyle with J&E and their environment, where they so carefully still have to hide their love.

Well, that makes sense. (And as Jeff Wrangler has noted elsewhere, the Summer of Love in 1967 was the year of their reunion!)

Still, I kind of like the way the actual movie keeps them more or less isolated from current events and changes in the outside culture. We hear about Vietnam only in the most indirect vague way. We see changing fashions. But otherwise, the characters seem to occupy a completely isolated and sealed off world, which makes a point in itself.

I could get used to the double entendre line. The only other direct sexual reference that either of them ever makes is Jack's comment about high-altitude f*cks. I like that line a lot, so in another context I can see liking the "well hung up" comment for the same reason.

What I hate most about the dialogue are the remarks about hippies being un-American and "we ought to scalp him." Yuck! They no doubt accurately depict typical attitudes of that time and place, but still. Yuck.

And if the scene is meant to say something about changing sexual mores, it seems a long way to go to make that point. Especially compared to the economy of the rest of the film. Compare that to how much is said (or at least, how much we have speculated is said) by the simple presence of a heavily tattooed woman on the dance floor!

If they wanted to show them relaxed and comfortable in each other's company, I'd MUCH rather see the "that's one a two things I need right now!" scene from the story, or something like that.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:50:28 pm: Quote
Still, I kind of like the way the actual movie keeps them more or less isolated from current events and changes in the outside culture. We hear about Vietnam only in the most indirect vague way. We see changing fashions. But otherwise, the characters seem to occupy a completely isolated and sealed off world, which makes a point in itself.

I completely agree with that. I wasn't trying to defend the purpose of the scene, nor argue that it should hhave been in the film, but merely to make some sense of the possible purpose and see the original writer's point of view. To me this is over-evident instead of multi-layered, like that scene in one of the early script versions where Ennis and Cassie go to watch one of the Star Wars films. Sure would single out the year(s) in question, but like you I'm of course really glad they toned down all those *big* cultural timing landmark moments, and made the film and the story more timeless and universal. It's still firmly grounded in time, place and culture, to my mind.

"LOOK, people! Time is passing, and now we have reached... The Empire Strikes Back!" ::) I don't think so. The hippes were filmed, though, while the star wars scene wasn't - so the hippies had more going for them in the end.

Quote
What I hate most about the dialogue are the remarks about hippies being un-American and "we ought to scalp him." Yuck! They no doubt accurately depict typical attitudes of that time and place, but still. Yuck.

That *is* horrid. I think I repressed and forgot that line the very instant I'd read it, because it's so far from what *my* J&E would say or think. ::) Playing devil's advocate here; it would have served the purpose of bringing across that our guys did in fact have unsavoury prejudices of their own.... They weren't saints and nobody's perfect.

(That's actually an interesting discussion point: Whether J&E's suffering under unfair prejudices made them more or less understanding and considerate of people being subjected to other types of unfairness based on commonly held biased opinions in that time and place. I'm sure it must have been discussed somewhere at length. ETA: Yes of course! The discussion about Ennis's attitude towards Alma and her work vs. her responsibilities as wife and mother, for instance.)

But no matter, I would have *hated* that line. **shudders**

Quote
If they wanted to show them relaxed and comfortable in each other's company, I'd MUCH rather see the "that's one a two things I need right now!" scene from the story, or something like that.

And everyone cried: Amen!! :)

Hey, it's very nice to actually be in a bit of a BBM discussion again! It's been ages since I found anything to say at all.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: MaineWriter on June 15, 2007, 05:51:20 pm: Quote from: ifyoucantfixit on June 15, 2007, 04:28:28 pm

True that Mel. I wonder if James Schamus wrote it? Since he is the one that supposedly campaigned for it to be included.??

Yes, he supposedly wrote the entire scene.

L
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:56:16 pm: Quote
Yes, he supposedly wrote the entire scene.

We ought to scalp him!

;D ;D ::) ::)

I'm sorry. Won't happen again. It was just so. tempting. :-X
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: SFEnnisSF on June 15, 2007, 06:04:02 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:56:16 pm
We ought to scalp him!

;D ;D ::) ::)

I'm sorry. Won't happen again. It was just so. tempting. :-X

:laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 15, 2007, 06:42:07 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 05:50:28 pm
Hey, it's very nice to actually be in a bit of a BBM discussion again! It's been ages since I found anything to say at all.

Hey, it's very nice to HAVE you here! I've missed your insightful posts! :)

Quote
(That's actually an interesting discussion point: Whether J&E's suffering under unfair prejudices made them more or less understanding and considerate of people being subjected to other types of unfairness based on commonly held biased opinions in that time and place. I'm sure it must have been discussed somewhere at length. ETA: Yes of course! The discussion about Ennis's attitude towards Alma and her work vs. her responsibilities as wife and mother, for instance.)

It has also come up, I think, in hypothetical discussions over whether Ennis would say anything homophobic about OTHER gay men. Personally, I've always thought of him as being too worried about hiding his own minority-group status to worry about attacking others for theirs. That's another reason I hate those lines -- they seem so out of character. True, Ennis does get aggressive from time to time, but otherwise not in a prejudiced way so much as just a general hot-headed way.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 15, 2007, 07:02:38 pm: Thank you Katherine. :)

Anyway, had the scene been in, I can imagine not only enjoying the banter and innuendo, but also the lengthy discussions we might have had on -for instance - the symbolism of Jack's hat being lost. And on the contrast between what J&E *say* and what they immediately do (going at once to help out and rescue). And what food were the hippies unpacking, exactly? Any symbolism there? And so on. We would have had a field day, even if the scene *was* somewhat jarring. Oh yes, despite the film being obviously better without it, still a very tiny little sigh for opportunities missed till we eventually get to see the deleted scene as originally filmed. Perhaps the dialogue wasn't at all filmed in full as written. Perhaps the whole scalping comment was.... uhm, scalped.

Better late than never: I'd like to thank you Toast for making this thread and including all the images at the appropriate place in the script. Makes the scene come alive, it does! :)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Toast on June 15, 2007, 10:27:30 pm: You're Welcome Mikaela and everyone else that has added comments.

It is great to be discussing something new and getting different opinions about the bits and pieces.

I read and digested the piece months ago and my first feelings were mirrored today in the words here.

I, too, am glad it was left out; it is a jarring thing to read, but there are those little togetherness moments in there that I would love to see.

My pleasure has been in reading your words, and having an old-time discussion going again.

Ennis really isn't that square.

James Schamus did not improve anything with this scene.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Clyde-B on June 15, 2007, 10:53:47 pm: Here's a link to a radio interview with Heath Ledger. When asked about deleted scenes he talks about filming the Hippy scene.

He didn't care for it either! ;D

http://inquirer.philly.com/rss/features/ReaLedger120805.wma

It's downloadable to keep.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Lynne on June 15, 2007, 10:58:53 pm: I suppose I agree that the movie is better without the hippie scene, because I prefer to think of their time after Brokeback as invisible and uninterrupted. Nonetheless, I think that Jack's line that 'He coulda been a hippie if he had more education.' is profound.

It highlights for me that the very smallest changes in their circumstances - born a little bit later, somewhere a little less conservative, finishing that sophomore year, may have made an enormous difference to them and the way they viewed their options. Maybe they wouldn't have been the types to become hippies and head for SF, but Denver would have been a realistic choice. For me this simple realization, is poignant - very small changes in circumstance ripple and can make a world of difference.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 16, 2007, 02:19:48 am: Quote from: smellykellyjay on June 15, 2007, 10:46:46 pm
I don't think we really see changing fashions with Ennis. Maybe the sideburns. But not changing is part of his character.

Right. I was thinking mainly of the sideburns. And Lureen's appearance. And Jack and Lureen's interior decorating.

Quote
I think it would have been better if Ennis didn't like the hippies because he didn't understand them, didn't know how to deal with them, had no experience with people like that. Make it be about his insecurities around strangers and unfamiliar things than some nasty prejudice. I suppose the scene voilates my ideal of Ennis as being kind hearted and loving unless he's messed with or feels threatened.

I agree. Well put.

Quote from: Lynne on June 15, 2007, 10:58:53 pm
I think that Jack's line that 'He coulda been a hippie if he had more education.' is profound.

It highlights for me that the very smallest changes in their circumstances - born a little bit later, somewhere a little less conservative, finishing that sophomore year, may have made an enormous difference to them and the way they viewed their options.

You're right, Lynne, and in that sense it is profound. Differences like that could have changed their fates drastically.

Still, that line seems to me to imply a self-awareness and larger cultural awareness in Jack that strikes me as somewhat unrealistic and too precocious. Even if Jack thought he coulda been a hippie, it seems more likely he'd attribute the fact that he isn't one to his age or the fact that he lived in small towns or something more obvious. Though WE can see how education might make the difference, because it would have changed his political views and level of sophistication, those are fairly subtle points -- after all, technically there's nothing to stop an uneducated person from becoming a hippie (and in fact, by 1973 many uneducated people HAD become hippies) -- so it's hard to imagine Jack noticing, from his perspective, how education would be a key factor.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 16, 2007, 12:47:36 pm: Quote
How do you know what was and wasn't filmed?

Oh, for sure I do not know anything with absolute certainty, I've got no connections that would give me any kind of inside information (more's the pity!). It's just based on circumstantial evidence available to all of us, - from being in the fandom nearly two years and looking at every image, reading and watching every interview etc. etc. that have come my way inclusive a lot of stuff on the net. So your guess is as good as mine. However, if by now noone's ever mentioned filming a particular scene, and there isn't a single image that could be construed to be from the scene, and the scene as available in early script drafts clashes profoundly with the tone, substance and characterizations in the scenes actuallly filmed, then I think we've got enough to base a conclusion on.

Though it's an uncertain science to be sure. I'd say that the Star Wars scene is a very safe bet as "never filmed". Back when I read it it just struck me to be completely off from the scenes that were filmed. Then there's a sliding scale of probability towards the "possibly filmed" and "likely filmed" ones. Though it's mere conjecture I'd still hold the scene where the Twists rescue the Malones as a "possible". At the other end of the scale are the ones that I felt or feel pretty sure had been filmed. Best example of that would be the prolonged part of the one camping scene, where Jack (according to the early script) gives Ennis an expensive gun and gets thoroughly upbraded for it. An image just surfaced that seems to confirm that this was in fact filmed. But we won't know till we get the deleted scenes. And I'm very surprised that nothing is happening on the DVD front. The film was the best by far in its year, it won so many awards it takes long time just to list them, it has a quite large, still active and very devoted fanbase; - obviously willing to spend money, buying thank you ads, publishing books, etc.... I do have a hard time understanding why Focus Films won't produce a DVD with proper commentary tracks and high quality bonus material worthy of the film. But I've been griping about that for a year, I think. ::)

Fans like me, demanding deleted scene after deleted scene.....It gets tiresome. ;)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 16, 2007, 02:35:47 pm: Quote from: Lynne on June 15, 2007, 10:58:53 pm
Nonetheless, I think that Jack's line that 'He coulda been a hippie if he had more education.' is profound.

It highlights for me that the very smallest changes in their circumstances - born a little bit later, somewhere a little less conservative, finishing that sophomore year, may have made an enormous difference to them and the way they viewed their options. [ ] For me this simple realization, is poignant - very small changes in circumstance ripple and can make a world of difference.

Oh Lynne, THANK YOU so much for this! This is such a generous and wise take on that one line of Jack's.

I'm embarrassed to say that when first I read that, I cynically and sadly read it as Jack's way of showing disapproval of the Hippies at the same time as disparaging his own childhood dreams. I heard Jack almost echoing his father. "They've got education, probably been to college, got out into the world, and just look where the education got them. It wasn't worth much. I'm much better off without."

Yes, I actually read it as a "There, but for the grace of God, go I". :( :-\ Needless to say I'm very happy to embrace your interpretation instead, Lynne.

----

On a separate note, I see that the script says that the VW bus is so far into water that it has "water at window-height". But in the picture of Ennis getting the girls to shore, the water is barely lapping at the bus's tires. The girls could therefore easily enough have waded to shore on their own pretty feet. Then again, the image can't be from the scene as it would have appeared if included in the film, since there's another rider visible who isn't Jack. I wonder if that particular part of the filmed scene would have been closer to the script if finalized. I hope so, but if so I don't see why they would not just stick the VW in deeper water from the very first. However it would have seemed really silly for Ennis to "save" the girls from the situation in the image. The only reason for him to do that would be if he really *wanted* them close up, and as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Fran on June 16, 2007, 02:56:15 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 16, 2007, 02:35:47 pm

On a separate note, I see that the script says that the VW bus is so far into water that it has "water at window-height". But in the picture of Ennis getting the girls to shore, the water is barely lapping at the bus's tires. The girls could therefore easily enough have waded to shore on their own pretty feet. Then again, the image can't be from the scene as it would have appeared if included in the film, since there's another rider visible who isn't Jack. I wonder if that particular part of the filmed scene would have been closer to the script if finalized. I hope so, but if so I don't see why they would not just stick the VW in deeper water from the very first. However it would have seemed really silly for Ennis to "save" the girls from the situation in the image. The only reason for him to do that would be if he really *wanted* them close up, and as quickly as possible.

Good observation, Mikaela. Your "The girls could therefore easily enough have waded to shore on their own pretty feet" made me smile. Well said!

Maybe the photo is from a "dress rehearsal" of the scene. BTW, I assumed the other guy in the background was Jack -- so much for my powers of observation. :)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: injest on June 16, 2007, 11:16:18 pm: We don't know the tone Ennis uses when he says that about scalping the hippies...when I first read it I was thinking in my head of the other time we saw them riding together and he was teasing at Jack about "You gonna run them sheep off again with all that noise"

Figured it was just Ennis teasing at Jack...cause of course he wouldn't really...
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 16, 2007, 11:56:53 pm: Quote from: injest on June 16, 2007, 11:16:18 pm
We don't know the tone Ennis uses when he says that about scalping the hippies...when I first read it I was thinking
Figured it was just Ennis teasing at Jack...cause of course he wouldn't really...

No, I didn't take it literally or seriously, but still ... :P
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Clyde-B on June 17, 2007, 08:53:07 am: Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 16, 2007, 11:56:53 pm
No, I didn't take it literally or seriously, but still ... :P

Supposedly the scene was written to show that Ennis and Jack were 'good guys.'

(Yeah, like the audience was too dense to have figured that out already!)

Don't remember any movies where the good guys went around scalping people. :laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: injest on June 17, 2007, 10:47:37 am: Quote from: Clyde-B on June 17, 2007, 08:53:07 am
Supposedly the scene was written to show that Ennis and Jack were 'good guys.'

(Yeah, like the audience was too dense to have figured that out already!)

Don't remember any movies where the good guys went around scalping people. :laugh:

speaking as a Native American descendent....

Every western made before 1980?????

:laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Clyde-B on June 17, 2007, 12:46:35 pm: Quote from: injest on June 17, 2007, 10:47:37 am
speaking as a Native American descendent....

Every western made before 1980?????

:laugh: :laugh:

;D Ya got me on that one! :laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: injest on June 17, 2007, 01:04:07 pm: ;)

it is all in your perspective!

:laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Penthesilea on June 17, 2007, 02:54:10 pm: Quote from: Toast on June 15, 2007, 10:51:52 am

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/Ennissavinghippies.jpg)

Sorry to interrupt the discussion for a moment here.

I think now we know where Heath gets his ideas for fashion from. Gosh, look at this green thing on the one girl's head. Wonder if Heath stole this from the costume's department... ;)

On a second thought...
Or maybe this wasn't a deleted scene at all. It's Heath's personal fashion guru and her daughter visiting him on the set ;) ;D
Must be it. I think I solved the mystery of the infamous hippie scene ;D ;).

On a more serious note:
As everybody, I'm glad this scene wasn't in the movie. I have no idea what James Schamus thought when he wrote it. It seems so detached, so un-fitting with the actual movie. It's like seeing a Pterosaur in Hitchcock's The Birds: they both fly, but they're worlds apart.

The only thing I can imagine it could have been for is humorous relief. I like the banter between them (and alone therefore I'd love to see the scene, but please not in the movie!). I can picture a quite good-humored Ennis in it, reading his remarks about the coyote, Jack's hat and his obviously good mood when riding away, despite Jack's remark about him being pretty well hung up.
And I think his remark about scalping the hippie could fit into that scheme.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: belbbmfan on June 17, 2007, 04:29:15 pm: Quote from: Penthesilea on June 17, 2007, 02:54:10 pm

Sorry to interrupt the discussion for a moment here.

I think now we know where Heath gets his ideas for fashion from. Gosh, look at this green thing on the one girl's head. Wonder if Heath stole this from the costume's department... ;)

On a second thought...
Or maybe this wasn't a deleted scene at all. It's Heath's personal fashion guru and her daughter visiting him on the set ;) ;D
Must be it. I think I solved the mystery of the infamous hippie scene ;D ;).

On a more serious note:
As everybody, I'm glad this scene wasn't in the movie. I have no idea what James Schamus thought when he wrote it. It seems so detached, so un-fitting with the actual movie. It's like seeing a Pterosaur in Hitchcock's The Birds: they both fly, but they're worlds apart.

The only thing I can imagine it could have been for is humorous relief. I like the banter between them (and alone therefore I'd love to see the scene, but please not in the movie!). I can picture a quite good-humored Ennis in it, reading his remarks about the coyote, Jack's hat and his obviously good mood when riding away, despite Jack's remark about him being pretty well hung up.
And I think his remark about scalping the hippie could fit into that scheme.

:laugh: :laugh:

thanks for a good laugh Chrissi! :)

And i agree with everyone here, i'm glad that scene didn't make it in the movie. It would have fitted in the movie like that girl 'fitted' on Ennis' horse.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 17, 2007, 04:49:45 pm: Quote from: Clyde-B on June 17, 2007, 08:53:07 am

Don't remember any movies where the good guys went around scalping people. :laugh:

You know, the whole scene *is* oddly reminiscent of every Western made before 1980: A wagon with some travellers out in the middle of nowhere, in unknown territory, stuck - and then the natives come riding up, talking of scalping and showing their easy command of the horses and their environment. If Jack and Ennis'd started riding in circles round the car, brandishing their rifles in the air and doing some woo-wee yelling, they'd truly be copying native Americans in any number of diligence-chasing scenes in any number of Westerns. Perhaps that's where the whole scalping comment fits in, too. Because I really can't see Ennis saying something like that, even in jest, in the movie proper - why would that particular idea even enter his mind? Because hippies have long hair, which according to cowboy standards needs to be cut = scalped? ??? Nope. It seems there's some - uhm- subtle subtext here: ;) J&E are cowboys and look the part to perfection, but there's something else about them - some part of their behaviour contrasts with the cowboy image and has them taking on other roles, opposite to expectations. On one level therefore, the whole thing's an attempted light-hearted riff on "westerns" and a variation of the "gay cowboy" theme! ;D

Quote
It's Heath's personal fashion guru...

Very interesting idea there, Chrissi. However I find it a little far-fetched that any one single person, however guru-like, could possibly be the source of Heath's dress code. It's so far out and special I think it can only come about through mixing equal parts Heath's taste and pure coincidence. You know how our guys kept some props as memories from the shooot, though? Jake kept some boots, I think. I bet Heath snatched that scarf-thingie. just like you suggest. I'm *sure* I must have seen him wearing it, on days when he left the too-large violet woolen hat at home. ;D

Quote
Or maybe they were going to CGI deeper water in later, kinda like with the sheep. I guess it could happen.

It's possible. Perhaps the chosen location for the shoot proved to have much less water than anticipated, once they got to filming.... and so they had to resort to some Plan B.

Well, if CGI deep water was being planned, Jake should certainly feel right at home, having so recently been in the thick of things when the seas reclaimed Manhattan. ;)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: cathyinaz on June 17, 2007, 08:53:02 pm: My very country grandmother used to talk crap about hippies all the time and I think the "scalping" Ennis was talking about was about the long hair on men and them needing a haircut. Our boys were gay, but they were country gay.

In the rural areas of America in the late 60's and early 70's a man with long hair could count on being harassed, arrested, beaten or even killed in rural areas. Actually some of the harassment was homophobia as men with long hair were considered to be effeminate and unmanly. I think that may have been the ironic symbolism that was meant in the misguided attempt to put this scene in the movie.

Glad it was not in the final movie, but I really want to see deleted scenes someday, I feel cheated by both BBM DVDs I bought, as I was sure the second edition would have more stuff on it and it didn't have much of anything that I didn't already have on my shelf with the first one.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on June 17, 2007, 09:12:20 pm: Quote from: ineedcrayons on June 15, 2007, 05:27:50 pm
I could get used to the double entendre line. The only other direct sexual reference that either of them ever makes is Jack's comment about high-altitude f*cks. I like that line a lot, so in another context I can see liking the "well hung up" comment for the same reason.

I don't think I could have. :( One reason I think "high altitude fucks" doesn't jar is because these are guys who use "fuck" as a kind of all-purpose expletive ("Jack fuckin' Twist," "Get the fuck off me"). Reading the line, the "well hung up" even "sounds" out of character to me--maybe because we don't ordinarily hear these guys making double-entendres. It strikes me as that sort of humor is maybe more sophisticated than they are.

In any case--thank God this scene was left out of the final cut!

Oh, and as Leslie said, the scene was written by James Schamus. The copy of the version of the script that I have that includes the hippie scene says right on the cover that it includes additions by James Schamus.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Fran on June 17, 2007, 10:05:44 pm: Fill in the blank:

As a writer, James Schamus is no _________________.

a) Annie Proulx
b) Larry McMurtry
c) Diana Ossana
d) All of the above.

I'm going with d). :)
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: serious crayons on June 17, 2007, 10:31:20 pm: Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on June 17, 2007, 09:12:20 pm
One reason I think "high altitude fucks" doesn't jar is because these are guys who use "fuck" as a kind of all-purpose expletive ("Jack fuckin' Twist," "Get the fuck off me"). Reading the line, the "well hung up" even "sounds" out of character to me--maybe because we don't ordinarily hear these guys making double-entendres. It strikes me as that sort of humor is maybe more sophisticated than they are.

Good point, Jeff! I think maybe subconsciously I felt that way, too. And it also helps explain why the "I coulda been a hippie if I'd had more education" doesn't sound right to me.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: LauraGigs on June 17, 2007, 11:13:11 pm: Toast, I have to ask: where did you get those stills??

I mean, I've seen this one: (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l173/nltoast/JacksLariat.jpg) but never the rest. Where did you find those? Please tell me!
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Mikaela on June 19, 2007, 11:41:45 am: I don't quite know what Board policy is towards linking to threads on other BBM boards, but I'm taking the chance since this one is too good to be missed. Delete if you must, mods.

This is the link to the new thread that just started over at Dave Culllen's, collecting everyone's pics from deleted scenes and deleted parts of scenes, and outtakes. And if *ever* there was a thread that showcased why we simply *need * and *must* and *should* get to see and own all those deleted scenes, not just the Hippies..... ! So many goodies here. Also for those who especially favour seeing Heath-as-Ennis smiling. :)

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=22668.0
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Penthesilea on June 19, 2007, 12:45:11 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 19, 2007, 11:41:45 am
I don't quite know what Board policy is towards linking to threads on other BBM boards, but I'm taking the chance since this one is too good to be missed. Delete if you must, mods.

This is the link to the new thread that just started over at Dave Culllen's, collecting everyone's pics from deleted scenes and deleted parts of scenes, and outtakes. And if *ever* there was a thread that showcased why we simply *need * and *must* and *should* get to see and own all those deleted scenes, not just the Hippies..... ! So many goodies here. Also for those who especially favour seeing Heath-as-Ennis smiling. :)

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=22668.0

Mikaela, thank you so much for this link :-*. All those Heath resp. Ennis smiles made my day :D! And not only them, I also discovered a few pics I've never seen before. Yay!
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Fran on June 20, 2007, 01:29:49 am: What Chrissi said.

Thanks, Mikaela.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Toast on June 20, 2007, 11:15:32 am: Thanks Mikaela for the link to Dave Cullen
What a treasure trove.

Thanks Lauragigs for adding our hippie pics, I love to share.

My favourite find there is the pic of Jack and Ennis and the rifle case
Wow they really did film that scene. SO Cool

Thanks.
Gotota go and check for new pics.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: moremojo on June 25, 2007, 01:41:41 pm: That Dave Cullen thread is fantastic! Just took a quick glance, and already so many pics there I had never seen before. I hope to browse through all that later at more leisure.
Title: Re: The Deleted Hippie Scene from the 2004 Screenplay.
Post by: Kelda on June 25, 2007, 05:13:22 pm: Quote from: Mikaela on June 19, 2007, 11:41:45 am
I don't quite know what Board policy is towards linking to threads on other BBM boards, but I'm taking the chance since this one is too good to be missed. Delete if you must, mods.

This is the link to the new thread that just started over at Dave Culllen's, collecting everyone's pics from deleted scenes and deleted parts of scenes, and outtakes. And if *ever* there was a thread that showcased why we simply *need * and *must* and *should* get to see and own all those deleted scenes, not just the Hippies..... ! So many goodies here. Also for those who especially favour seeing Heath-as-Ennis smiling. :)

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=22668.0

Oh wow! I've never been on dave cullen but that really is a good thread - can you start a new sperate thread on this here? either linking to D Cullan or starting our own - thats is fab! so many photos I haven't seen!