REPOST (What begins as a seemingly trollish post, take a humorous turn as the BbM message board's cast of regulars jump in!)
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Funny Flaws
by morgant6911 20 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 10:17:38 )
1. The aging process: Since when does growing a mustache age someone 20 years? Secondly, they could have made at least SOME attempt to make them look older. The time flies by in this movie, they their clothing stays the same for decades at a time. Are we supposed to buy that Ledger and Jake are well into their 40's?
2. The last scene where Ledger and Jake see each other, Jake goes from having a mustache, to shaved, to mustached again. I liked that quite a bit.
Please list more, as these were a couple of the blatently obvious ones.
Re: Funny Flaws
by Rontrigger 20 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 10:21:27 )
1. Jack grew that mustache between the post-divorce scene (spring 1976) and the Thanksgiving scene (fall 1977). He'd had it for six or seven years by the time they last saw each other. And they weren't "well into their 40's" by then--they were both 39.
2. Perhaps if you'd watch it again, you'd realize that what you saw was a flashback to the summer when they met.
"You can't have Ennis without Jack."--Annie Proulx
Re: Funny Flaws
by morgant6911 20 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 10:30:00 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 10:31:39
1. Ledger did not age one bit. Not at all, during a 20 year span.
2. You may be right, I wasn't really paying attention at this point. Next time it is on HBO, I will double check.
Re: Funny Flaws
by NewHorizons37 19 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 11:25:05 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 11:27:39
Ledger did not age one bit. Not at all, during a 20 year span.
He certainly did. It is subtle, but look at him in a scene from the summer on BBM, then look at him in the final scenes, with the Twists or looking at the shirts in his trailer. There is a marked difference. His hair is different, and he looks subtly older, as if his skin has gotten weathered over the years.
Maybe you were expecting more of a difference since you mistakenly thought they were well into their 40s at the end of the film. Nope, Ennis would be 39 at the end of the movie. The movie did well at making him look older, but not old.
And the fact that scene you thought was a goof, is not. It is a flashback, has already been mentioned. Jake's moustache in the present-day scenes is one of many clues that the scene by the fire when he is clean-shaven, is a different time period.
Re: Funny Flaws
by ClancyPantsDelMar 18 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 12:27:07 )
Hi everyone --
I know you have all answered the OP quite well, but I just have to jump in.
Hi morgant6911 --
"1. The aging process: Since when does growing a mustache age someone 20 years?"
The purpose of Jack growing the moustache was NOT to make him appear older. It is to keep the character of film-Jack in line with the characterization of short-story-Jack as written by the author, Annie Proulx. An important aspect of the short story is that Jack changes over time, acclimating himself to his new lifestyle in Texas; whereas, Ennis does not change. The short story lists several ways that Jack changed, growing a moustache is one of them. The filmmakers chose to remain true to the story.
"Secondly, they could have made at least SOME attempt to make them look older. The time flies by in this movie, they their clothing stays the same for decades at a time."
This is incorrect. Ennis' clothing stays very much the same because he is dirt-poor. Jack's clothing (and his trucks, btw) change significantly over time because he has come into money. Again, the filmmakers remained true to the characterizations developed by the author.
"Are we supposed to buy that Ledger and Jake are well into their 40's?"
No. The last time we see either of them, each is approximately 39 years old. Take a look at some close-ups of Ennis' face from the mountain time and from the final lake scene collapse. Compare them side-by-side. The subtlety of the aging is quite impressive.
"2. The last scene where Ledger and Jake see each other, Jake goes from having a mustache, to shaved, to mustached again. I liked that quite a bit."
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I have never understood how anyone did not know this was a flashback on a first viewing. I'm sorry... I know there are a number of confirmed, old-time, regular Brokies who did not. But, the contrasts are so glaring, I, personally, don’t understand missing it. (I said I was sorry.)
Anyway, OP, please re-watch the movie. There is a lot more to get out of it. It is very richly textured and multi-layered.
Re: Funny Flaws
by shortfic 18 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 12:51:25 )
I thought the aging showed up a lot in and around their eyes. Ennis's eyes look narrower at the end. Maybe from all those years of squinting while working in the sun?
Ennis is also around 39 or 40, but he looks older than that. Again, it's from all those years of backbreaking labor and no real vacations except for those occasional fishing trips.
"Say thank you, Gilbert. Say thank you."
Re: Funny Flaws
by latjoreme 18 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:14:45 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 13:37:08
Let's think of some other funny flaws. Like:
Ennis and Jack supposedly went on all these fishing trips. Wouldn't it have been more believable if the movie had included a scene or two of them fishing? You would think they weren't really going there to fish.
Toward the end, Jack tells Ennis he's been seeing a ranch neighbor's wife -- but isn't he supposed to be gay? Or has he been fooling Ennis all along? It's like the movie can't make up its mind.
In Jack's closet, I noticed two shirts that were accidentally hung on the same hanger. And then later, I saw the same thing in Ennis' closet. The props people should have been a little more careful.
Re: Funny Flaws
by daphne7661 17 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:24:05 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 13:45:01
...and what's wrong with that script girl/guy?! They had Ennis saying he was sick of beans, when we see him clearly enjoying his beans in a later scene. Sheesh!
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...
Re: Funny Flaws
by tiffanykk2002 17 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:35:26 )
LoL @latjoreme good ones!
Honestly though I think the aging could have been somewhat more distinguishable. In fact it took me a while to realize just how much time had passed because they pretty much looked the same to me. They did put some subtle aging lines on the characters and of course the moustaches. Still Jack for instance came off a little boyish toward the end of his life. I didn't see a 39yr old man.
I didn't even notice how old Ennis came to look until the final scene with his hat off.
The OP might be a little confused about a couple of things but, I understand them on this subject.
Re: Funny Flaws
by ClancyPantsDelMar 17 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:41:39 )
Hi latjoreme and daphne7661 --
LMAO! I love it. All very good.
The thing I could never understand is when Ennis said he left his shirt up on the mountain, why didn’t Jack just give it back to him then, hunh? Was he plannin' on warshing it and having it delivered? Hunh?
Re: Funny Flaws
by richardg49 8 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 22:33:07 )
Clancey, that's forgiveable, but why did Annie Proulx and the scriptwriters not make it so that it was a guy and a girl who spent the summer herding sheep alone up on Brokeback, fell into good old (heterosexual) love, and spent the rest of their lives living happily ever after? So much more believable than two guys, surely.
Re: Funny Flaws
by sokeyt 20 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 10:31:13 )
2. The last scene where Ledger and Jake see each other, Jake goes from having a mustache, to shaved, to mustached again. I liked that quite a bit.
It's a flashback!!!!!
Re: Funny Flaws
by oilgun 20 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 10:56:08 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 13:29:03
1- I thought the aging process was done quite well, although the brillo pad sideburns were a bit much. Like the film makers' said there isn't that much of difference between ages twenty and forty. The subtle make-up was fine, especially Ennis' later leathery skin. I thought Heath was very believable as Kate Mara's father in the last scene. If anything, Jack looked older than 40 when we last see him but I guess that could be explained by his rodeo injuries.
2- As others have noted: Flashback!!
The only thing I can add is the disappearing log in the scene where Aguirre rides to the camp to tell Jack that his uncle has pneumonia. You see Jack place a log on the stump and while he's talking to Aguirre, the log disappears. Not a big deal, but I was looking forward to a DVD commentary to see if it would be mentioned. It's a pretty obvious continuity error and I wondered how they would explain its inclusion.
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forever.
Re: Funny 'Flaws'? I don't think so!
by tomtrueman 19 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 11:21:38 )
I've read where make-up experts had commented that the aging was very subtle but well done. A little touch of greying here and there, getting a little stiffer, and the crinkles around Ennis's eyes the growing paunch on Jack certainly added to the effect.
To the OP, MOST men had moustaches in the late '70s and early '80s, and it wasn't to make him look older, it was to make him look like he probably would have looked back then. (I can remember when some self-appointed fashion expert decreed that moustaches were now "out" and all the lemmings were shaving them off right left and centre, and the effect was EXACTLY like castration. Huge mistake!)
And it's amazing how many people think that was a "continuity problem" when Jack's moustache "came and went". Give the film makers a little credit. They wouldn't miss something that obvious. When you watch it again, notice that Jack has a moustache the last time they say goodbye, and as Ennis DRIVES OFF in his truck, Jack remembers a happier time, when he (without moustache) watches him RIDE OFF on his horse, before he's back to the present (with moustache), as he sadly watches him disappear, again in his truck. It's the last time he'll ever see him.
As for the log "continuity problem" that some people talk about, if you've ever chopped wood, you'll know that the bottom of the log is often not smooth and the chopping surface is not level or even. It's not surprising at all that Jack could put the log up to chop, and then while he's talking to Aguirre, it could just topple over and fall off. Not surprising at all.
Re: Funny 'Flaws'? I don't think so!
by dav0001 17 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:51:47 )
Well, I have to jump in here and agree with the Op here. The first time I watched and they showed the flashback I was confused also. So apparently it's not as obvious to everyone as some people think it should be.
Re: Funny 'Flaws'? I don't think so!
by Rontrigger 17 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 13:52:20 )
UPDATED Wed Dec 13 2006 13:53:09
Hi, Tom:
I think what may throw a lot of people (including myself) who watch Jack place the log up on that stump is that it seems to be standing pretty securely as he backs off and Aguirre rides up. But I guess the slightest vibration could have brought it tumbling down (behind the stump, where we can't see it).
Nice to have an explanation of this; I always found it puzzling.
"You can't have Ennis without Jack."--Annie Proulx
Re: Funny 'Flaws'? I don't think so!
by oilgun 16 hours ago (Wed Dec 13 2006 14:37:20 )
As for the log "continuity problem" that some people talk about, if you've ever chopped wood, you'll know that the bottom of the log is often not smooth and the chopping surface is not level or even. It's not surprising at all that Jack could put the log up to chop, and then while he's talking to Aguirre, it could just topple over and fall off. Not surprising at all.
Well, Tom that's what I try telling myself everytime I watch the movie, "the log must have fallen over" but it just doesn't work, lol! That log looks too secure sitting on that stump. In any event whether it fell or not, to me it still looks like a "continuity problem".
))<>((
forever.