Author Topic: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)  (Read 27274 times)

Offline David

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Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« on: May 08, 2006, 08:01:38 am »
This was mentioned on the old board and I thought we could explore it better over here.

At the last night by the lake, Ennis tells Jack about Cassie and her dreams of nursing school.  But then he ends the statement about seeing her with :"but I don't know".

Was Ennis trying to tell Jack that he was just killing time with Cassie?   Or was there a deeper meaning there?   

Did Jack miss out on the importance of that comment?   After all, he mentions his affair right afterwards.   

Was Ennis coming to grips with his own situation after all these years?

something to think about...
« Last Edit: May 11, 2006, 11:54:44 am by DavidinHartford »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2006, 09:22:09 am »
Good topic, David! And good idea to poach promising topics from the old board.

Ennis' tone really captures his lack of enthusiasm for the relationship. Not just the "but I don't know," but also the "wants to be a nurse or sumpn." Like he has barely paid attention to her talk about her plans. Some have said the news makes Jack jealous, which is why he responds with the lie about the ranch foreman's wife. But it's hard to believe Jack doesn't pick up on how blase Ennis sounds.

And my opinion is that, yes, by this point Ennis has realized that he is gay and has partly come to terms with it. I know many people find this view debatable, to say the least. But he seems so unexcited and passive about Cassie -- far less so than he was about Alma, even. He gets dragged into the relationship because Cassie came on so strong and he figures that's what he's "supposed" to do. But when he breaks up with her, it's because he realizes there's no point in keeping up the pretense.

And while we're on the subject, I've wondered if there's any deeper significance to Cassie's "girls don't fall in love with fun." I saw an essay on the old board about this; it was interesting but I didn't agree with the author's point (he was arguing that in the end Jack decided to break up with Ennis as a favor to Ennis and somehow the question of Ennis being "fun" or not worked into it). But given that this line is given such dramatic emphasis and is actually the first time in the movie the word "love" is used -- not, as is sometimes claimed, in the final scene with Alma Jr. -- you'd think it must mean something.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2006, 09:26:24 am »
I guess I've always found the "Girls don't fall in love with fun" line significant because I think it's the first time Ennis realizes that Jack is in love with him.  Or at least it's the first time he associates that word with what Jack has been trying to tell him all those years.  I think that when Ennis says, "I guess I wasn't much fun, was I?" he's saying it not just in relation to her, but it's how he thinks of himself in general.  He dislikes himself so much that he can't imagine anyone finding it "fun" to be with him.  When she says that, I think he realizes that Jack found being with him fun, so to speak, because he loved him.  Just as Cassie has just admitted she did.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2006, 10:07:49 am »
I agree with both of you. What makes the end of the movie so tragic for me is that Ennis was almost there, he had almost traveled all the way around the coffeepot to find the handle, the answer. And he was almost ready to agree to a life with Jack. That's why he broke off with Cassie. But I don't think Jack recognized it, because he was embittered.
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Offline David

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2006, 12:16:44 pm »
Well,  many have said, and I agree, that Jacks spirit died the day he drove up when Ennis got his divorce.  You never see him smile after that.

But at the last lake scene he brings up the topic.  "So after all these years you never found someone to marry?"   Jack was fishing for Ennis's feelings.     Of course, we also know that Jack has been seeing Randall for 5 years now.    Bittered yes, hopeful?  maybe.   

What I think we forget is that these two guys know very little about eachother lives other than the info they share during these fishing trips.    And it's all them things they don't know about eachother that feed the jealousy I think.

And that is the beauty of the story.   These two want each other so much yet can't get it.    And for alot of us, we also seek this pure form of love.    We all face obsticals, some of them our own doing, others tossed in front of us.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2006, 12:26:21 pm »
I agree with both of you. What makes the end of the movie so tragic for me is that Ennis was almost there, he had almost traveled all the way around the coffeepot to find the handle, the answer. And he was almost ready to agree to a life with Jack. That's why he broke off with Cassie. But I don't think Jack recognized it, because he was embittered.

And I agree with this, Front-Ranger. I think he was almost there, too. Whether he would have lived with Jack I don't know. But I think he had finally come to terms with the fact that he was always going to love Jack and shouldn't bother pretending otherwise. To me, that's what the pie scene is about. So sad ...

And David, I think you may be right that Jack was fishing. Too bad Ennis didn't respond more directly. And too bad Jack didn't read Ennis' "who cares" tone. Or Ennis' nonchallant acceptance of Jack's seeing another woman.

Offline littleguitar

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2006, 01:05:25 pm »
Quote
Well,  many have said, and I agree, that Jacks spirit died the day he drove up when Ennis got his divorce.  You never see him smile after that.

He smiles that last night by the lake, after Ennis says "you probably deserved it", though I have to say it is one of the saddest, most heartbreaking smiles I've ever seen, and it's followed by "Tell you what..."  I definitely agree that Jack's spirit died that day.
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2006, 01:35:27 pm »
He smiles that last night by the lake, after Ennis says "you probably deserved it", though I have to say it is one of the saddest, most heartbreaking smiles I've ever seen, and it's followed by "Tell you what..."  I definitely agree that Jack's spirit died that day.

As do I.  And that's yet another beautiful piece of acting by our Jake.  Well, all of it.  But the day of the post-divorce trip, when Ennis starts pushing him away, and they look at that truck passing by together, and he *gets* right then and there that Ennis is never gonna be OK with the two of them being open about their relationship, the way he says, "Yeah.  All right." and backs up that little bit and does that thing with his tongue - as if he's doing that in concentration - the concentration it takes to keep from breaking down in front of him - that just slays me every time.

As I've said before here, I've been there to a lesser extent.  The one I was over the moon in love with had missed work all week due to a bad case of tonsilitis after we'd been what I believed was quite serious for several months, and I took that Friday off to make and bring him homemade chicken soup.  I asked his housemate at the time if he thought it was a good idea, and he even said, "Sure.  If that was me, I'd love it!  He's pretty bummed about feeling so crappy, so I'm sure a visit from you would cheer him up."  I took the soup over there early in the afternoon, just expecting to leave it by the front door in a cooler I had brought for it so as not to bother him, but he opened the door right away as if he was up watching TV and had heard me pull up.  And he was *annoyed*.  It was clear he was, from the moment I saw his face at the door.  I got my heart broken that day, because I was sure it'd be sort of a turning point (towards the good) for us, especially after getting that vote of confidence from his housemate.  I just remember that lump in my throat like it was yesterday.  And I drove back home in tears, too.  I didn't see or speak to him until the following Monday, when he'd returned to work and never bothered to let me know he was going to (we also worked closely together), nor to thank me for the soup which his housemate said was yummy.  Grrrrrr...  Things were never the same after that and by all accounts I should have just ended it.  But we continued on at *his* pace for several more months.  I don't remember smiling much during that time, either.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 01:38:07 pm by ednbarby »
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Offline David

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2006, 03:59:51 pm »
A great big Hug for Barby!       Us Pisces (March)  are suckers sometimes aren't we?

David    :-*

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2006, 09:43:12 pm »
But it's hard to believe Jack doesn't pick up on how blase Ennis sounds.

And my opinion is that, yes, by this point Ennis has realized that he is gay and has partly come to terms with it. I know many people find this view debatable, to say the least. But he seems so unexcited and passive about Cassie -- far less so than he was about Alma, even. He gets dragged into the relationship because Cassie came on so strong and he figures that's what he's "supposed" to do. But when he breaks up with her, it's because he realizes there's no point in keeping up the pretense.

I think Jack does pick up on the blase tone about Cassie.  I think he responds with his equally blase tone about his marriage to Lureen that could be done "over the phone" (slightly Off T: a little bit of ominous foreshadowing perhaps?).

Yes, I think the pie scene is a big moment for Ennis.  I don't think he was ever interested in Cassie (even Alma Jr. gets this) and now, you're right he's decided to be honest about this and not pretend... I mean Ennis tried to keep her at arms length during their first dance, and he had to be dragged onto the dance floor then (and also when he danced with Cassie in front of Alma Jr.). 

I wonder what Ennis is thinking when Cassie says "I don't get you..."?  He looks at her in a thoughtful way.  If he would allow himself to at that moment, would he even be capable of answering that question with "well, I'm already in love with a man"... or "I'm gay"?  Has he come that far by the time of this conversation?   I think most of the film while Jack is alive is like watching Ennis inch slowly towards the conscious conclusion that he's gay and should do something to "fix" his relationship with Jack.  I think there's not doubt he's gay all along (but coming out to himself in a clear way in his head obviously is a long process for him).  I wonder... in terms of the chronology of things... Are we supposed to think that Jack is already dead (un-beknownst to Ennis) by the time the pie scene comes?

Jack's death is like a sledge-hammer epiphany about a lot of this to Ennis.  The fact that he actually takes it upon himself to do something awkward and bold for Jack following his death is an enormous sign I think.  I mean not only does he pick up a phone and talk to Lureen, but he actually gets in his truck and drives all that way to visit Jack's parents (clearly an awkward situation for him in some ways).  Throughout their 20 year love affair Jack couldn't drag Ennis up there.  And, yet Ennis does this on his own (he's clearly anxious and wanting to do this) following the death.  Those actions show how much Ennis feels responsible for Jack and how much he really does think of himself as Jack's partner.
 :'( :(
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