Author Topic: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)  (Read 27106 times)

Offline David

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2006, 11:01:56 am »
Either way, November would have made for some fireworks!   

If Ennis told Jack he was ready and Jack had to go up to Lightning Flat and toss out Randall, imagine that fight!

Or worse,  if Ennis had not changed and Jack told him that he was ranching up with Randall...  Look out!   We know Ennis has a temper. 

But Ideally I would like to think that Jack didn't carry out his plan to bring up Randall.  He was going to come back to se Ennis in November just as planned.     Well, had he not met his unfortunate fate.    :'(

Offline serious crayons

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2006, 11:42:58 am »
Oh wow... yet another symbol to dig into! I've never thought much about the guns, though I've always thought they probably mean a lot.  It's too late to really ponder in-depth tonight.  I'll go seek out the thread on the old board.  I haven't ventured back that way for a long time...  Thanks for the tip.

OK, I posted the gun analysis on a new thread. And I noticed, in rereading it, I was wrong -- clancypants DOES mention the holstered gun in the lake scene. So s/he gets the credit for that observation, not me. Anyway, the whole thing is good.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2006, 11:50:00 am »
Guilty as charged on the coffeepot handle/clancypants-gun thing. Thanks for posting that IMDB thread, lat. Clancypants is quite a thinker. On the end of the lake scene, Annie Proulx spells it out more clearly than Ang was willing to do (as usual). She said that nothing new was said, nothing changed, nothing resolved. But Jack did make it clear that he couldn't get by on a couple of high-altitude f***s a year, so he was going to have to broaden his friendships. And because Randall was not hacking it as a substitute, he probably did what you said, David (I cannot bring myself to quote it, sob). What Jack told his parents was just talk, likely. He would have said about anything to please his old man. Though I love Jack more than myself even, he was, technically, a liar and a thief.
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Offline newyearsday

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2006, 12:43:35 pm »
Bumping so I can read and reply to this excellent-looking thread when I get home from workie work!
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2006, 01:07:50 pm »
Guilty as charged on the coffeepot handle/clancypants-gun thing. Thanks for posting that IMDB thread, lat.

I was going to post your comment, too, F-R, but then I thought I should let you do it. Since you didn't, let me note that Front-Ranger pointed out the "gun's goin off" line in the story. Good one!

Jack's sad line... "sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it" is meant to show that Randall is not satisfying to Jack as an Ennis-substitute.

Right. If he went off with Randall, he would still miss Ennis so much he could hardly stand it.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2006, 03:48:54 pm »
We know Jack didn't end up ranching with Randall in Lightning Flat because John Twist said about his bringing "another fella" up there "But like most o' Jack's ideas, it never come to pass."

So Jack was thinking about it and mentioned it to his parents in the Spring, but it hadn't happened yet.

Like so many things in the movie, the exact catalyst for Jack's murder (as some would say, if that's what even happened) is ambiguous.  But judging from what John Twist said, I lean towards the explanation that he came on to one of those mechanics - maybe by then he and Randall had broken it off and it had been so long for him that he couldn't stand waiting any longer? - just like he came on to Jimbo, and that horrible excuse for a human and his rat bastard buddies beat him to death because of it.

In the story, I think the statement "So now Ennis knew it had been the tire iron" was not a reflection of it being specifically about Randall, but just the realization that Jack needed that contact with other men enough so as to not be able to wait for him and to be potentially careless in the meantime.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 03:52:12 pm by ednbarby »
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Offline David

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2006, 04:44:53 pm »
We could speculate forever.    But why did the screenplay specify Killer Mechanics?

Mechanics imply that they could have work at Newsome Farm Equipment.    Gee,  Jack was going to divorce Lureen.    Could Lureen gone crying to daddy?      Old L.D. Newsome had already made the "you want your son to grow up a man?" comment which implies that Jack wasn't a man to him.    Could L.D.'s mechanics been the ones who killed Jack?    I know, it's a stretch.

Yup, we'll never know if Jack changed his mind or not.   Anne Proulx left it too vague for us.

Gee, I guess we got a bit off topic eh?    LOL

Offline silkncense

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2006, 05:33:04 pm »
Staying off topic but --- I read clancypant's discussion & still believe absolutely that it was not over after the lake scene. 

1.) Jack absolutely would tell Ennis to his face.  As noted, Ennis had no inclination that they would not be together in November so when they parted, 'nothing changed.'

2.) Jack's momentary resolve to end it was broken when Ennis collapsed.  I see his refusing to walk away (when it would've been the PERFECT opportunity) as Ennis shoves him & yells, "Get the f... off me!" and instead holding him & saying "Damn you" - like 'I was almost there...'

3.) Also, I see his "It's alright, 's alright" told gently to Ennis as reasurring - just as it was during the 2nd tent scene.

4.) Jack's father would not have said "but it never come to pass..." if he thought Jack & the Rancher had not come to Lightning Flat because his son was dead.  He may be an ass - but not that big an ass.

5.) Jack's mother KNEW - and she KNEW that Ennis was the only one.  She did not want him to believe there might have been a 'someone' else. 

"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline David

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2006, 05:37:04 pm »
5.) Jack's mother KNEW - and she KNEW that Ennis was the only one.  She did not want him to believe there might have been a 'someone' else. 

Oh I'm sure his mom knew that Ennis was Jacks true love.    I'm sure Jack confided in her.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: What Ennis says about Cassie. (from TOB)
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2006, 05:45:52 pm »
Oh I'm sure his mom knew that Ennis was Jacks true love.    I'm sure Jack confided in her.

Or even if he didn't, there were those shirts ...