TOTW 07/07: Was Mr. Twist homophobic?

[serious crayons]

In the book, when Jack asked Ennis if he missed him, Ennis replied that he realized his biggest mistake was not going after Jack when he drove away in the pickup.  Also mentioned that he used Jack as a sexual fantasy quite a bit.  However, in the movie, Ennis simply replied, "I don't know."
Also the book mentioned that Ennis was confused by his bisexuality, but the movie makes no mention of this.

Ang Lee basically turned each character into an archetype. It worked, but it would have been nice to see each character as three-dimensional.

Interesting. I think of Ennis in the movie as being MORE three-dimensional.

But then, I also think of him as gay rather than bisexual. And I think of him as extremely confused by his sexuality, even though he doesn't mention it aloud. And when he says "I don't know," I think he really does know quite a bit, but again doesn't want to say it.

[brokeplex]

Yeah, Fran.  That was a surprise when I read the book.  In the book, when Jack asked Ennis if he missed him, Ennis replied that he realized his biggest mistake was not going after Jack when he drove away in the pickup.  Also mentioned that he used Jack as a sexual fantasy quite a bit.  However, in the movie, Ennis simply replied, "I don't know."
Also the book mentioned that Ennis was confused by his bisexuality, but the movie makes no mention of this.

Ang Lee basically turned each character into an archetype. It worked, but it would have been nice to see each character as three-dimensional.

Excellent point, maybe for the purposes of film making the screenplay was written showing Ennis as far more one dimensional than he was in the short story. In the movie I would like to have seen more of the Ennis that is in Annie Proulx's story, he was a bit more believable. But, the incredible acting skill of Heath Ledger managed to rescue much of that other "dimension" of Ennis with gestures, and facial expressions, even if it is not always reflected in the dialog. On another point, some of Ennis's playful humor is missing in the released version of the movie, but it is in the screenplay. For example, in 1972 when the boys are on their "damned blue parka" trip, Ennis brings Jack a paper sack with cans of beans in it, remembering how Jack hated beans, "No more beans!" I would have liked that bit of humor.

[Brown Eyes]

But then, I also think of him as gay rather than bisexual. And I think of him as extremely confused by his sexuality, even though he doesn't mention it aloud. And when he says "I don't know," I think he really does know quite a bit, but again doesn't want to say it.

I think this is a really interesting point about film-Ennis.  I think there's a huge disconnect between what he knows or understands internally and what he is willing to say out loud.

Maybe the most extreme manifestation of this (besides the motel scene and the "I don't know") is the pie scene with Cassie.  By the time of the pie scene, I think Ennis is much more aware and is at a critical stage of articulating his situation to himself, but he's not able to say much of anything to Cassie in terms of coherently explaining himself to her.

I think in the phone booth, when he actually *talks* to Lureen about Brokeback, this is a signal that Ennis has gone through a change.

[moremojo]

I think in the phone booth, when he actually *talks* to Lureen about Brokeback, this is a signal that Ennis has gone through a change.

And isn't it interesting that Alma, as far as we know, and unlike Lureen, never hears the name Brokeback Mountain? Jack was always more articulate than Ennis, and accordingly revealed the name of that sacred place even to those for whom it would have had no meaning.

[Artiste]

Was Mr. Twist homophobic? 

At times, I did think so !!

At other times, I thought maybe that old man Twist is not homophobic!

Did anyone think that way: yes and then maybe no ??

Moremojo please come back ; we love your posts!!
Moremojo, come back, I need you!! Your posts were delightful!!

Au revoir, to you and to all too!!

Hugs!

[optom3]

Was Mr. Twist homophobic? 

At times, I did think so !!

At other times, I thought maybe that old man Twist is not homophobic!

Did anyone think that way: yes and then maybe no ??

Moremojo please come back ; we love your posts!!
Moremojo, come back, I need you!! Your posts were delightful!!

Au revoir, to you and to all too!!

Hugs!

My gut instincts tell me that he was homophobic,yet selfish enough to let his desire to have the ranch licked into shape,over ride,or put up with the situation.In my experience with those who hate,whoever or whatever,there is an inherent selfish spirit,which allows them to put aside those feelings,if to do so would benefit them,emotionally or financially.
I see OMT as fitting in with this genre.He is undoubtedly,mean spirited,as witness the pleasure he derives from mentioning the other man to Ennis.Sadistic,as per the bathroom incident in the S.S and probably homophobic when it suits him.

[Brown Eyes]

Thanks for reviving this thread Artiste.  This is definitely one of the most complex, recurring debates out there about BBM.

[Artiste]

Mon plaisir Atz!

It my pleasure, yes!


Indeed, it's complex... as you say!!

I am still puzzle by it!!

You?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

if we judge him by our standards, he was homophobic.

but is it useful to judge a character from a different time and place by our standards?

I think not.

 My own feelings are that OMT was very disappointed in Jack, and his disappointment over Jack's failure to delivery on his plans to "lick this ranch into shape" overrode any homophobia. Lets face it, OMT understood the relationship which Jack had with Ennis, and if OMT's primary motivations were homophobic, he didn't have to let Ennis in the door at all.

[Brown Eyes]

if we judge him by our standards, he was homophobic.

but is it useful to judge a character from a different time and place by our standards?

I think not.

 My own feelings are that OMT was very disappointed in Jack, and his disappointment over Jack's failure to delivery on his plans to "lick this ranch into shape" overrode any homophobia. Lets face it, OMT understood the relationship which Jack had with Ennis, and if OMT's primary motivations were homophobic, he didn't have to let Ennis in the door at all.

Yes, I agree that OMT was disappointed in Jack... and he seems quite motivated by the whole issue of Jack coming back to the ranch to help work on the ranch (with Ennis or with another fellow... either of whom would also be a help on the ranch).  He seems to be enjoying his ability to needle Ennis over his level of knowledge about their relationship and over his (OMT's) superior knowledge about certain aspects of Jack's life (i.e. the other fellow).

In all of this OMT comes across as a jerk, but not overwhelmingly homophobic.  OMT seems to illustrate the point that a person can be a jerk without necessarily being homophobic (and at least not frighteningly so).  I think OMT and Mrs. Twist are both learning experiences for Ennis... demonstrating that people can surprise you.  That things aren't always as bad as his fears kept indicating to him over all those years.  Mrs. Twist is kind, welcoming and seemingly accepting of his and Jack's relationship... And, OMT is a grump, but nothing too overwhelmingly intimidating.

I don't think we're given many indications that OMT really is homophobic... at least he doesn't seem virulently so.