Author Topic: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?  (Read 74869 times)

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2007, 04:02:05 am »

BBM is a tragedy, and not just for Ennis and Jack.  Ang wanted us to see how the chains of keeping people from being themselves creates pain and misery not just for those directly affected, but for everyone around them - and that includes their wives and children.

Perfect way of describing BBM....absolutely......

It was not a competition of who was hurting or was hurt the most.....everyone was hurting, and regardless of what they were hurting about, the hurt still hurts, and those involved make descision emotionally trying to not hurt those around them, but no matter how much they try to do that, somehow, everyone still gets hurt in some way or another.......
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2007, 03:09:09 pm »
Thanks to all of you!  Since you have been many replying to my last reply, I am happy about your replies!!

All of you sure awake me with your may details!! I learn this way! And many others will too! We all educate ourselves this way! This subject puzzled me a great deal, and still does. At least, some answers were given which I accept!

Now, let us turn the story, a bit. What if Ennis was the STAY AT HOME SPOUSE?? Yes, him only the houseperson? Give me details? They would be the same?

(TOO: Then, Alma Jr. would have know EARLIER that her father was a bi or gay man??)

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2007, 03:14:07 pm »
Thanks to all of you!  Since you have been many replying to my last reply, I am happy about your replies!!

All of you sure awake me with your may details!! I learn this way! And many others will too! We all educate ourselves this way! This subject puzzled me a great deal, and still does. At least, some answers were given which I accept!

Now, let us turn the story, a bit. What if Ennis was the STAY AT HOME SPOUSE?? Yes, him only the houseperson? Give me details? They would be the same?

(TOO: Then, Alma Jr. would have know EARLIER that her father was a bi or gay man??)

Hugs!

A stay at home Ennis househusband is completely out of character with the times and the slice of Wyoming demographic pie that AP is serving up. It is just too inconsistent with the Ennis character as defined by AP to seriously consider. Now Jack on the other hand......hmmm that is worth considering. Jack might have made a perfect househusband, that is with the time he had left over from seeing Ennis and "rendezvousing" with other men in the Childress area. 

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2007, 03:32:30 pm »
I agree with Brokeplex here.  Artiste, do you remember the scene when Ennis is following Alma out of the apartment and yelling at her out on the street, because she took the extra shift at work (even though she had still cooked dinner for him and the girls)? 

The point is, even though he worked and was the primary breadwinner, he was bothered by that. He never would have accepted a spouse being the primary wage-earner and he the house-husband. It just wouldn't happen.

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2007, 07:38:19 pm »
Thanks LauraGigs, and thanks brokeplex!!

LauraGigs, firstly I will try to add or reply to your comment. Of course, Ennis was bothered because his wife went for the second shift, likely so since he considered himself a man, a spouse and a father, and the primary breadwinner then. But may I wonder if his wife wanted him to be the primary breadwinner? May I ask?
...

brokeplex: Ennis, I figure,  would have made a good houseperson, since he loved his children, and may I say his love too was for his wife! 

Regarding that, when my father became ill, he stayed at home. Luckily, mother was forced as such to go to work outside the house, since she was the houseperson before that! That bothered father for the rest of his life that he could not anymore provide for her and us kids!! It would have been a shame to get welfare then... but none would have been given even.

In Montréal last November 2007, I was shocked (surprised too) as well as pleased finally when I asked a male young artist I was exhibiting with at an art exhibition there in that city, what kind of work he did, and that he told me that he was the houseperson and that his wife worked outside the house!! They have kids too!! I am still puzzled... by that! Since, he wants to work as that, plus or more, I felt??

...
So yes it would have happened then and would be now too that Ennis would have been an houseperson!!
May I say, yes!
...

That is one more reason for me to say that Alma Jr. knew that her father was bi or gay!! May I guess!! ??

hugs, hugs!!

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2007, 07:51:22 pm »
Quote
But may I wonder if his wife wanted him to be the primary breadwinner? May I ask?

Sure, she did. She expected that he'd be the primary breadwinner and she'd be the primary house-person. Every time you see her in the film she's doing laundry or knitting, and in the one scene when Ennis comes home to find the postcard, she's cooking with Alma Junior right beside her, also in an apron at a little stove. (Basically instructing her little girl in the art of being a housewife.) Alma has no problem with the traditional setup at all.

If you remember the first scene in bed with her + Ennis, she wants to move to an apartment in town so Alma Junior will have playmates and Jenny (with her asthma spells) will be closer to medical services. The next thing you see, they're living there, and Alma is working. So evidently, that's the compromise she + Ennis came to: they're in a slightly more expensive place like she wanted, and she is earning a little extra money so they can afford it.

Quote
So yes it would have happened then and would be now too that Ennis would have been an houseperson!!
May I say, yes!
...
That is one more reason for me to say that Alma Jr. knew that her father was bi or gay!! May I guess!! ??

I don't think so.  It doesn't really make sense.  Ennis would always want to work outside in the field.

And if Brokeback Mountain showed us anything, it's that gay men can be quite traditionally masculine!  Being a houseperson doesn't make one more likely to be gay, and vice versa.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 06:54:40 pm by LauraGigs »

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2007, 08:38:18 pm »
Sure, she did. She expected that he'd be the primary breadwinner and she'd be the primary house-person. Every time you see her in the film she's doing laundry or knitting, and in the one scene when Ennis comes home to find the postcard, she's cooking with Alma Junior right beside her, also in an apron at a little stove. (Basically instructing her little girl in the art of being a housewife.) Alma has no problem with the traditional setup at all.

If you remember the first scene in bed with her + Ennis, she wants to move to an apartment in town so Alma Junior will have playmates and Jenny (with her asthma spells) will be closer to medical services. The next thing you see, they're living there, and Alma is working. So evidently, that's the compromise she + Ennis came to: they're in a slightly more expensive place like she wanted, and she is earning a little extra money so they can afford it.

I don't think so.  It doesn't really make sense.  Ennis would always want to work outside in the field.

And if Brokeback Mountain showed us anything, it's that gay men can be quite traditionally masculine!  Being a houseperson doesn't make one more likely to be gay.

great comments.....you know I do wonder if Ennis really was the "primary" source of income for the Delmar household. Ennis's occupation is low paying at best, and he never built up any seniority with the local ranching community because he quit his jobs from time to time. Alma was dedicated to her job and even took extra shifts.
As much as I really am not sympathetic at all with Ennis until near the end of the movie, I really liked and respected Alma. If I were straight I'd be her house-husband in no time flat!

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2007, 12:23:25 am »
Thanks LauraGigs, and thanks brokeplex!!

Brokeplex, you managed to make me laugh when you say you would be Alma's houseperson!!  I wonder why you say that? May I ask?

...................................................................................................

LauraGigs, you say: And if Brokeback Mountain showed us anything, it's that gay men can be quite traditionally masculine!  Being a houseperson doesn't make one more likely to be gay.

May I add LauraGigs: Concerning that most femme-men, or men who dress in women's clothes, I have seen or read about in surveys are straights (mostly all. And I know that nearly all gay men that I met are indeed masculine!! You are right!! So this film breaks away a bit from others films who places feminine acting men as gay men!!

Since you say that being a male houseperson does not make him a gay man, you are right. I think that I met one last month who is a straight (heterosexual) man!

...

I think that if Ennis would have been let by his wife to be a houseperson, then Alma Jr. would have known earlier that her father was bi or a gay man!! ?? Would you think about that??

Hugs! Hugs!

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2007, 03:19:37 am »


I think that if Ennis would have been let by his wife to be a houseperson, then Alma Jr. would have known earlier that her father was bi or a gay man!! ?? Would you think about that??

Hugs! Hugs!

Oh for God's sake......houseperson???.......we are talking the sixties, men went to work, women stayed home....or if women did go to work, it was usually to supplement the husband's income......

Alma Jnr would NOT have thought her father was gay whether he was a houseperson or whether he walked around the house in a dress.....he was HER father, thats all she saw him as........
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2007, 10:29:29 am »
Thanks Katie77!

When my father was sick, he continued to work outside the house, but when he could not at all anymore, he was inside the home. And just because he was gay or not, he did not wear a dress!! Not at all!!

So I think that him or Ennis as housepersons, would have been Ok then at that time, since they would have had no choice maybe, at least father had to do so: become a houseperson! Ennis continued to work outside the house, in the movie.

However, if Ennis would have continued to live but as an houseperson with his wife (Alma Sr.) working outside the house, surely he would have been giving signs, as he thought more about his life and his daughters lives as he took care of them more directly. And, therefore, somehow, I would think that Alma Jr. would have known that her father was a bi or gay man!! Surely so, don't you think?

Hugs!