As Easter nears, no Easter in Annie's story or the BM movie?? But??

[Artiste]

Thanks delalluvia!

You say:

I still don't see the connection between bull-worshippers and Easter and BBM. 
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Do you think that sheep in the BM movie is like an Easter or bible story?
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You say:

I still don't see the connection between bull-worshippers and Easter and BBM.  At best, the only thing I see that they have convincingly in common are livestock.
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I like your sense of humour!

Delalluvia, Happy Good Friday!

Hugs!
 
 
 

 
 
 

[Front-Ranger]

Thanks Front-Ranger!
I did NOT know the origin of the word Easter! So that is it: Oestre ??

Since it's Holy Friday, do you think that Jack is crucified by being blasted with the tire iron? In film(s), Christ is picked by the arrow of the soldier, a sword? The tire iron is like sword to make him bleed?

Happy Good Friday to you, family and friends!!
Hugs!

I would like to answer you as best I can, Artiste, but this talk of crucifixion makes me queasy. I remember as a teenager that I used to babysit at a Catholic family's home and there was a crucifix on the wall that I could barely look at (me being raised Presbyterian where the crosses were bare) and even tiptoed past. The analogies are many.. .  for instance the nails that were driven into Christ's hands bring to mind the nail that Ennis drove into the closet door where he hung the shirts, the sword (as you mention) which is analogous to the tire iron, and the vinegar that the centurions swabbed in Christ's wounds, which brings to mind the horrific "baptising" that Jack received via his father pissing on him...well I could go on, but let's not!!

I will also discuss at more length the parallels between "bull worshippers" (that is a major oversimplification) and the modern patriarchal religions...but think on this for a second...why is Easter on a different date each year??

[delalluvia]

I will also discuss at more length the parallels between "bull worshippers" (that is a major oversimplification) and the modern patriarchal religions...but think on this for a second...why is Easter on a different date each year??

Good question.  This is what Wikipedia says:

The calculation of Easter is complicated because it is linked to (an inaccurate version of) the Hebrew calendar. Jesus was crucified immediately before the Jewish Passover [or after depending upon interpretation - my comment], which is a celebration of the Exodus from Egypt under Moses. Celebration of Passover started on the 14th or 15th day of the (spring) month of Nisan. Jewish months start when the moon is new, therefore the 14th or 15th day of the month must be immediately after a full moon. It was therefore decided to make Easter Sunday the first Sunday after the first full moon after vernal equinox. Or more precisely: Easter Sunday is the first Sunday after the "official" full moon on or after the "official" vernal equinox. The official vernal equinox is always 21 March. The official full moon may differ from the real full moon by one or two days. (Note, however, that historically, some countries have used the real (astronomical) full moon instead of the official one when calculating Easter. This was the case, for example, of the German Protestant states, which used the astronomical full moon in the years 1700-1776. A similar practice was used in Sweden in the years 1740-1844 and in Denmark in the 1700s.) The full moon that precedes Easter is called the Paschal full moon.

[Artiste]

Merci, thanks Front-Ranger!

Wow, you were scared as youth when you babysitted there, seeing that crucifix!!

I guess that you now know that even christian kids, youths, even adults are scared of that too!! Even to-day??

Are you still scared of that even to-day, if I may ask?

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I forgot why Easter's date is changing every year? Something about 40 days, is it?

Keep care!

Have a great and happy Good Friday Front-Ranger!!  Same wish goes to your family and friends!!

Hugs!

[delalluvia]

Since it's Holy Friday, do you think that Jack is crucified by being blasted with the tire iron? In film(s), Christ is picked by the arrow of the soldier, a sword? The tire iron is like sword to make him bleed?

Hi Artiste.  No.  A few pages back, I wrote that IMO, BBM had nothing to do with Easter or the resurrection.  Jack was dead and that was that. 

The Roman soldier pricked the side of Jesus with his spear to make sure he was dead, not to make him bleed.  Apparently this was a normal thing to do before they hauled down bodies, if they were going to do so.

and the vinegar that the centurions swabbed in Christ's wounds, which brings to mind the horrific "baptising" that Jack received via his father pissing on him

This is interesting because I just read this in my favorite cookbook A Taste of Ancient Rome:

"...this beverage was...posca, a drink of vinegar or acidfied wine and water that is often mentioned in ancient sources.  It was used for the military troops and considered to be refreshing and invigorating.  With this in mind...according to...John 19:28-29...[Jesus said] '"I thirst".  Now there was a vessel full of vinegar;  and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth...'  This seemingly heartless action was therefore simply a gesture of compassion [by the soldiers] for a dying man..."

[Front-Ranger]

This is interesting because I just read this in my favorite cookbook A Taste of Ancient Rome:

Yes, that sounds like quite an interesting cookbook!

"...this beverage was...posca, a drink of vinegar or acidfied wine and water that is often mentioned in ancient sources.  It was used for the military troops and considered to be refreshing and invigorating.  With this in mind...according to...John 19:28-29...[Jesus said] '"I thirst".  Now there was a vessel full of vinegar;  and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth...'  This seemingly heartless action was therefore simply a gesture of compassion [by the soldiers] for a dying man..."

Very interesting...the words of the Bible are certainly skewed often to suit the agenda of the times, aren't they? Now, I heard in great detail as a child about the terrible things that were done to Jesus to increase his suffering. All these anecdotes were gathered together under the heading of "The Passion of the Christ" and certain sects replay the whole thing as a ritual, and there was even a movie by Mel Gibson on the subject, which I didn't see. But the passages can be interpreted any number of ways, as can the Annie Proulx story. What I think we can agree on is that there are references to Christian and/or pre-Christian rituals and symbology in the story. I don't believe that Annie Proulx did this because she wanted to promote any kind of religious agenda at all. I think she was simply drawing upon a universal archetype as any good writer/storyteller would do. There are archtypes which transcend not only stories but whole religions, they are a part of our DNA in a way.

More after lunch...

[Artiste]

Thanks delalluvia!

You say:


Now there was a vessel full of vinegar;  and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth...'  This seemingly heartless action was therefore simply a gesture of compassion [by the soldiers] for a dying man..."


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None of that given to Jack?  What kind of compassion did he get from the murderers who murdered him?

And what kind of compassion did the murderer(s) did give to the one gay man of those two old tough birds??

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Destiny is it Easter? What is it to you or as the BM movie?

Hugs! Happy Easter dellaluvia!  And Happy Good Friday!

[delalluvia]

You say:

Now there was a vessel full of vinegar;  and they filled a sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth...'  This seemingly heartless action was therefore simply a gesture of compassion [by the soldiers] for a dying man..."
............

None of that given to Jack?  What kind of compassion did he get from the murderers who murdered him?

And what kind of compassion did the murderer(s) did give to the one gay man of those two old tough birds??
......
Destiny is it Easter? What is it to you or as the BM movie?

I don't think Jack was murdered, so there's no issue there.

However, if you think Jack was murdered, then the answer is "None".  No compassion at all was given Jack by his murderers which differs from the Jesus story and hence, another reason BBM is not like the Easter story.

[Artiste]

Thanks delalluvia!

I understand more of what you say now.

So you think that maybe Annie accents that there is no compassion when murderers murder gay men just because these murdered are gays?

Does she warns us?

Hugs!

[delalluvia]

Thanks delalluvia!

I understand more of what you say now.

So you think that maybe Annie accents that there is no compassion when murderers murder gay men just because these murdered are gays?

Does she warns us?

Hugs!

No.  Proulx left the story ambiguous.  She doesn't say Jack was murdered and she doesn't say he wasn't.  So I don't think she was 'warning' us about anything other than the destructive nature of homophobic society on everyone.