Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way

[Mikaela]

What about the line, "As clumsy as I am, I'd probably electrocute myself.

A further and third possibility might be that Ennis is hiding his motives (ie. wanting to stay off a job that he wouldn't be able to quit whenever the fishin' trips  beckon) behind the plain truth for once: He doesn't have a very high opinion of himself, he has low self-esteem and very little self confidence. If he'd ever actually considering taking on a responsible job at the power company; I bet he *would* constantly worry that he'd manage to bungle it completely.

"Gonna snow tonight for sure."  Snow was the harbinger of the early end of their summer on Brokeback, and here it's the harbinger of the early end of their relationship and Jack's life.  Breaks my heart every time I hear him say it.

Oh yes.    All of that scene just breaks my heart. What especially gets to me is Jack's question at the tail end of the snow comment:

"All this time and you ain't found nobody else to marry?"

A straightforward question about what's happening in ennis's life  -  but also a sign that Jack has given up the last buried bit of hope for a life together with Ennis. He's really saying that even in his heart of hearts he knows now that Ennis will not ever stop pretending to be what he's not; will never come around to honestly considering a life together with Jack. There is an finality, an acceptance of that as a fact in Jack's question. He's puzzled - since Ennis truly is going to go through all of his life living the lie, afraid of people finding out, ashamed of who he really is - then why haven't he taken the obvious step and seen to putting up the front that a re-marriage would provide?

But maybe that's just me, and it's equally possible to read into the question a sign that Jack has still not completely given up, precisely because Ennis hasn't gone and re-married?

[serious crayons]

But maybe that's just me, and it's equally possible to read into the question a sign that Jack has still not completely given up, precisely because Ennis hasn't gone and re-married?

My initial reaction was that even after all this time they still had to keep up the pretense of being interested in women. Perhaps Jack does so only to avoid Ennis' startle point. At some point, I heard the theory that Jack was merely trying to bait Ennis, get him to discuss why he hadn't married and maybe admit his real preferences. I can see that, too. Either way, you'd think Jack would be pretty encouraged by Ennis' utterly lackluster response.To me,

"I've been putting the blocks to this good-looking little gal in Riverton. Waitress ... wants to be a nurse or sumthn ... I dunno ..."

pretty much telegraphs "Yeah, but who cares?"

Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual orientation thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?

[Mikaela]

Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual preference thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?

This contained such interesting points that I had to quote all of it!

I've always taken Ennis's question and Jack's reply to be something along the lines of "Do you manage to make it work enough that it *seems* normal, even to Lureen? ie. Do you manage to keep the real you undercover?" And then Jack's shrugged reply to be: "Yes, I manage to make pretend well enough for that so that noone suspects the truth."

I hadn't thought about Ennis actually figuring that "Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side", as you say. But it seems not unlikey that it might be so.

However, would Jack, even Jack, understand it if that's how Ennis's mind worked on this matter? I'm not sure that he would. Jack's got a much more realistic view of his own sexuality and his marriage and what it does and does not mean - he seems to project his way of understanding those things onto Ennis.  For all their love there's a lot they don't manage put into coherent talk or thought about one another. I think several scenes indicate that Jack considers Ennis's clinging to marriage as a front deliberately maintained by Ennis to hide behind. In the post-divorce scene he thinks that the marriage being over means Ennis has made a decision to move on out of cover, to not live the lie.

So perhaps they speak at cross purposes without even knowing it in the two later scenes where marriage comes up.


One of the challenges, I find, in fully understanding the characters and their motivations is that I find it difficult moving back to the mindset of the 1970's and how homosexuality was considered back then. How it wasn't spoken of, how it wasn't on most people's radar at all, etc. It's such a visible everyday issue today, such a normal part of public life and discussion, it's difficult to go back to how it was in Ennis's time even though it's just a generation ago. It makes sense that someone in Ennis's situation would be quite ignorant about the matters that could have made him understand himself - and Jack - better. All he'd have to go by would be the locker-room type taunts and jibes and that horrible incident of his childhood.

[Brown Eyes]

Speaking of which, here's a comment about their previous camping scene. He says, "So you and Lureen. Is it ... normal and all?" And Jack just shrugs and nods. But I always wish he'd have just said, "Hell no, dumbass -- because I'M GAY." I know a lot of people might say that would freak Ennis out in the same way Jack's Mexico revelation supposedly (debatably) does. But I always think maybe that might have clued Ennis in. Maybe he really doesn't get how the whole sexual orientation thing works, doesn't know why it wasn't "normal" with him and Alma, why he isn't attracted to other women. Maybe he assumes Jack and Lureen DO have a perfectly average marriage, except for this thing Jack has going on the side. And that might make him feel even more self-conscious. ... I mean, it sounds absurd to us. But is it that farfetched that someone in his situation might be pretty ignorant about that stuff?

I'm just jumping in here to agree with Mikaela...  This is one excellent post Katherine! 

OK, new line.
Ennis to Lureen- "We were good friends." - can be translated into "He was the love of my life and my best friend."

 

[Brown Eyes]

And another one...
"You sleep with the sheep, 100 percent"- can be translated into "I don't want no rose stemming out of you two boys."

[nakymaton]

And another one...
"You sleep with the sheep, 100 percent"- can be translated into "I don't want no rose stemming out of you two boys."

Or in other words: "Buggery is just fine, but keep your hands off each other, you hear?"

Ummm, I hope that everyone reading this thread knows that, just because I think of something when I hear a line, that doesn't mean that I think that the character actually thinks it (or that Annie Proulx or Diana Ossana or Larry McMurtry or Ang Lee or Heath or Jake or etc etc actually meant me to hear it that way).

As for

As clumsy as I am, I'd probably electrocute myself.

In addition to all the other good ideas, I hear: "I would hate that job. I hated working for the road crew, listening to that guy with plumber's butt go on and on. I like castrating calves and helping the heifers calve."

Meryl... no, I'm not going to make some up about "ignorant asses" right now. Though actually, I find it interesting that there's a lot of disagreement about what exactly pushed Jack to stand up to L.D. there. If it's Bobby's presence, then maybe Jack is also saying "I'm a man too, dammit!" If he's just getting to his breaking point in general because the separation from Ennis is eating away at him, then he might also mean "I just can't deal with you people! Argh!"

[Meryl]

Meryl... no, I'm not going to make some up about "ignorant asses" right now.  Though actually, I find it interesting that there's a lot of disagreement about what exactly pushed Jack to stand up to L.D. there. If it's Bobby's presence, then maybe Jack is also saying "I'm a man too, dammit!" If he's just getting to his breaking point in general because the separation from Ennis is eating away at him, then he might also mean "I just can't deal with you people! Argh!"

Heh, I can always trust you to wax eloquent on any subject, Mel! 


"You're nineteen, guess you can do whatever you want."

I haven't really been around enough to earn the right to tell you who to date.

Or

I couldn't do what I wanted at nineteen.  I'm glad you can.

[serious crayons]

Ennis to Lureen- "We were good friends." - can be translated into "He was the love of my life and my best friend."

Thanks, Mikaela and Amanda! 

Amanda, the very phrase "love of my life" and even "best friend" are enough to make me tear up these days.

OK, back briefly to the camping scene by the river. Does anybody think maybe Jack could have handled it a bit better? Amanda has mentioned the idea that during the "prayer of thanks" scene Jack jumped in a little too quickly with the cohabitation idea -- in a completely understandable, well-meaning way, but sort of ruining the sweet moment. I wonder if a similar thing is going on here.

Ennis really seems to be confiding in Jack about subjects he's not normally comfortable discussing, taking a risk to sincerely ask for Jack's thoughts. Are things "normal" with his wife? Does he worry that people "know"? Does Jack worry about that stuff? How does he handle it? This could be an opportunity for Jack to confide his own feelings, offer Ennis some reassurance that his fears are normal under the circumstances, take the moment to a greater level of intimacy -- provide the verbal equivalent of the wet handkerchief after the bear incident, or the cheek caress after Ennis' revelation about Earl.

Instead, for understandable and well-meaning reasons -- Jack always has to be wary of that low startle point -- he doesn't. He shrugs off the questions and suggests that Ennis move out of town. That actually does seem like a sensible solution. But not entirely reassuring for Ennis, as it disregards his worries. And when it comes to cohabitation, Ennis has an even lower startle point, and Jack hits it (and gets thrown).

So ends Ennis' moment of openness, and an opportunity is wasted.

[Aussie Chris]

So ends Ennis' moment of openness, and an opportunity is wasted.

Awww, Katherine, you're just a little sentimental today aren't you?

Very cute!

[belbbmfan]

This could be an opportunity for Jack to confide his own feelings and experiences, offer Ennis some reassurance that his fears are normal under the circumstances, take the moment to a greater level of intimacy -- in other words, provide the verbal equivalent of the wet handkerchief after the bear incident, or the cheek caress after Ennis' revelation about Earl.

Instead, for perfectly understandable and well-meaning reasons -- Jack always has to be wary of that low startle point -- he doesn't do any of these things. He shrugs off the questions and suggests that Ennis move out of town.
So ends Ennis' moment of openness, and an opportunity is wasted.

Latjoreme,
I agree. Towards the end of their relationship, Jack seems to be less tender and caring. He was talking about money and profits, which was a bit showing off, considering Ennis' financial situation. Jack seemed to have gone a bit numb inside, because the older they got, the more it becomes painfully clear to Jack that he and Ennis will never live together.