Author Topic: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way  (Read 121679 times)

Offline dly64

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #240 on: July 30, 2006, 05:40:40 pm »
I've been practising my ESP, and its paying off...  ;)

Where do I find your comment, I'm curious... ?

It is in the "Trying to Make Sense of Jack" thread. This is what I said:


I agree with you up to a point. I agree that Jack became more interested in Lureen when he found out that she came from money. Where I would differ from you is that, IMO, Lureen and Jack were never partners. We can surmise that they were hardly lovers. I also doubt that they shared much of anything with each other. Lureen almost became “parent like” … “new model’s coming in this week, remember …. you’re the best combine salesman we got … the only combine salesman, in fact …”

As for Jack and Lureen’s sex life … I think you are right that she doesn’t push him, but I think it is because she has shut herself off from her emotions. She comes to the realization that their marriage was one of convenience. As time goes on, she throws herself into the business as a way to distract herself. It is not that she doesn’t want the sexual intimacy. She more than likely has racked her brain about why Jack and her don’t have sex like they did when they first were married (I am making an assumption there …. notice that her hair is free flowing up until they have been married a few years. Then it gets stiffer and blonder and her appearance becomes harsher and harsher. The more makeup she uses is a “mask” to hide her inner turmoil). 

I also think that Lureen had troubles respecting Jack. Notice her reaction when the guys in the shop said,  “Didn’t that piss-ant used to ride bulls?” … “He used to try". Jack doesn’t stand up to her or her father. When Jack finally lets L.D. Newsom have it … Lureen cracks a smile, as if saying, “It’s about time!!!”


Rather scary ... we hit a lot of the same points!  ;)

Diane

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Offline stevenedel

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #241 on: July 31, 2006, 07:17:47 am »

Rather scary ... we hit a lot of the same points!  ;)


Thanks for the post. I couldn't agree more. And well... if we came to the same conclusion independent of each other, it figures that it's true, doesn't it...  :)
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Offline dly64

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #242 on: July 31, 2006, 12:10:08 pm »
Thanks for the post. I couldn't agree more. And well... if we came to the same conclusion independent of each other, it figures that it's true, doesn't it...  :)

ABSOLUTELY!!  ;D
Diane

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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #243 on: August 02, 2006, 07:10:33 pm »
I was talking with Impish recently about the meaning of the term "stemming the rose" and it got me thinking about yet another interpretation. Now I'm thinking maybe it's a euphemism like "popping the cherry" for taking someone's (Ennis's) virginity. If Annie Proulx wanted the cherry to have a different meaning in the story, she may have had to come up with a different term for this. And we could hardly expect Aguirre to use the word virginity. Does anyone else think this is logical??
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #244 on: August 02, 2006, 07:56:48 pm »
Well, Aguirre says it as if he considers it to have been an ongoing activity, not a one-time thing.

I sometimes wonder if our old friend TJ may have had a good point about this (for those who came later, TJ was a guy from rural Wyoming who used to post here). He claimed that "stemming the rose" is a term meaning goofing off on the job. TJ went onto insist that therefore, it couldn't possibly mean anything else. That's where I disagree -- if there really is such a phrase, I think Annie cleverly turned it into a double meaning.

(TJ said the same thing about "wring it out" -- that it means to concentrate heavily on something. Again, if that's the case, I think Annie deliberately played on its suggestive sound.)

Of course, both "stemming the rose" and "wring it out" sound a lot more like their sexual meanings than what TJ says they mean, especially in this context. So maybe Annie just made them up?

Offline dly64

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #245 on: August 02, 2006, 08:34:45 pm »
Of course, both "stemming the rose" and "wring it out" sound a lot more like their sexual meanings than what TJ says they mean, especially in this context. So maybe Annie just made them up?

I had heard "wring it out" before ... and let's just say it had a sexual connotation. As for “stemming the rose” … I would take it in a very similar way. Goofing around? Maybe … but “goofing on each other” is more like it.  ;)
Diane

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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #246 on: August 02, 2006, 08:41:40 pm »
I had heard "wring it out" before ... and let's just say it had a sexual connotation. As for “stemming the rose” … I would take it in a very similar way. Goofing around? Maybe … but “goofing on each other” is more like it.  ;)

You're right. Both phases do evoke pretty vivid images ...  ;)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #247 on: August 02, 2006, 11:20:54 pm »
(TJ was from Oklahoma, not Wyoming... ;D His points were interesting, but it's also possible that the meanings of slang phrases vary from one part of the West to another. I know there are words used in particular places in small parts of the northern New England states, and maybe isolation creates similar language islands in the West.)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #248 on: August 03, 2006, 12:45:05 am »
(TJ was from Oklahoma, not Wyoming... ;D

Oops, you're right. Sorry TJ, if you're out there somewhere still reading this board.

Quote
His points were interesting, but it's also possible that the meanings of slang phrases vary from one part of the West to another.

Could be. In any case, I don't think Annie Proulx used them as ordinary innocent idioms and it's only us gutter-minded BetterMost members who interpreted them in a sexual way (as TJ suggested).

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #249 on: August 03, 2006, 11:00:33 am »
I didn't agree with TJ (who incidentally is from Oklahoma, but they all sound alike to U city slickers  ;) [I am just pulling yr leg, kat]) on stemming the rose, but no matter. Impish felt that Annie Proulx made up that term just to drive us all crazy! And I think he's right (said with a half Wyo/half Aussie accent)! So, now on to the next double meaning thing. The last word that Aguirre had on the subject was "Ranch stiffs ain't never no good." No comment needed on that, I think.
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