Author Topic: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way  (Read 121675 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2006, 10:54:50 am »
Here's one:

"Jack ain't the restaurant type"

Of course Ennis has to stop Alma from entertaining any notions she'll be going along with the two of them, - but it has a unintended hint of the humorous to it because it seems like a gentle dig at Jack's constant complaining about the food situation on the mountain and all the fussing over the beans. 

This is a really interesting line to point out.  I see your point.  I think there's another way of looking at it too.  I see Jack as being more of a restaurant type than Ennis.  I get this impression because he does fuss over the food a lot more (by the way, I love using the word fuss!).  Also, later when we see him at the charity dinner dance (well, it's not quite a restaurant, but close) we get the sense that Jack is more at ease in that kind of setting than Ennis would be (if for no other reason than it's a busy, crowded, social place... things that make Ennis nervous).

Also, I think we're supposed to remember this remark about Jack "not being a restaurant type" the next morning after the motel.  When Alma looks out the window at Ennis getting into Jack's truck she hears Jack ask if he wants to grab something to eat (presumably at a restaurant).  They'll probably drink coffee over breakfast too!  Texans, and definitely Jack, really do drink coffee (we know the prominence of the coffeepot on the mountain).  So, it's made crystal clear to Alma that Ennis is trying to keep Jack away from her and that they want to go hang out without her.
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tiawahcowboy

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2006, 10:59:35 am »
Alma was saying something about taking his friend to the Knife & Fork for supper instead of cooking it was so hot, if they could get a baby-sitter, but Ennis said more likely he'd just go out with Jack and get drunk. Jack was not a restaurant type, he said, thinking of the dirty spoons sticking out of the cans of cold beans balanced on the log.

Mikaela, you right; Ennis was attempting to make up excuses why he did not want Alma to be with him and Jack. And, while it does not seem that way so much in the movie, Alma was a person who was miserable and a whiner. He should have never married her in the first place.

I have a friend who is now separated from his wife; but, I certainly did not want to go anywhere with him when she was along, especially if we went to some kind of superstore. That's because she would strongly hint that I buy something for her or her daughters in the store. I say "her daughters" because I actually know that his mother and his sister both have said the could not be a biological father and his father did not believe that the girls were his biological grandaughters. I definitely agree with his father and, in a way, my friend seems to agree, too. But, both he and his father accept them as family. Oh, they accepted me, too.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2006, 12:48:14 pm »
Good observations by everybody while I was gone over the weekend! I especially like the comparison of "Spare you a loan" with "Why don't you move" -- both times Jack is overlooking Ennis' angst, trying to be upbeat in a well-meaning way, but saying the opposite of what Ennis wants to hear.

OK, here's a line I'd love to analyze. Its meaning to the speaker is fairly clear. But what I want to know is what it means to the listener:

"Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun."

I started wondering about this line only recently. It's the first time the word "love" is used in the movie, which gives it significance. We all know how significant the second use of the word is. I noticed that, immediately after Cassie says it and then flees from the bus station, Ennis' demeanor changes. He stops eating pie and looks up as if her words have triggered a thought. He barely notices Cassie leaving. The camera lingers on his face as he gazes into space as though pondering something.

What do you all think he's thinking?



Offline nakymaton

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2006, 01:05:06 pm »
OK, here's a line I'd love to analyze. Its meaning to the speaker is fairly clear. But what I want to know is what it means to the listener:

"Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun."

I started wondering about this line only recently. It's the first time the word "love" is used in the movie, which gives it significance. We all know how significant the second use of the word is. I noticed that, immediately after Cassie says it and then flees from the bus station, Ennis' demeanor changes. He stops eating pie and looks up as if her words have triggered a thought. He barely notices Cassie leaving. The camera lingers on his face as he gazes into space as though pondering something.

What do you all think he's thinking?

"Wait... maybe boys don't fall in love with fun either?"

I'm not sure that Ennis really understands just how much he means to Jack, despite all those times when Ennis should have gotten the hint.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2006, 01:10:50 pm »
So which boy didn't fall in love with fun? It could be him realizing how much he means to Jack. Or it could be him realizing how much Jack means to him.

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2006, 01:15:38 pm »
"Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun."

But, I have known and still know closeted homosexual men who married women because they were fun to be with while out in public and they loved them as friends. But, they were never in love with the women. I almost fell into that situation, too.

I had fun with every woman that I dated and everyone of them would have made great wives for heterosexual men. And some of the actually married men who were great as husbands. In fact, one of them had to introduce me to her husband when I saw her at a reunion of a certain college club. In his presence, she told him that I helped her adjust to college life and she thanked me for that, too.

Well, it does not make sense to me why they created that scene for the movie in the first place. I mean, Cassie was dating, Carl, the guy she entered the restaurant/bus station with and they were acting like a happy couple until she saw Ennis.

But, it appears she doesn't exactly love Carl  . . . "Carl? He's nice. He even talks." Looks more like she's dating Carl on the rebound; since Ennis has been ignoring her messages.

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2006, 01:24:47 pm »
So which boy didn't fall in love with fun? It could be him realizing how much he means to Jack. Or it could be him realizing how much Jack means to him.

I would say that Jack didn't fall in love with fun. I mean, I think Ennis does think that Jack is fun. (I keep picturing Jack's exaggerated clowning around when Ennis tells him that "my daddy thought rodeo cowboys were a bunch of f***-ups." Or Jack's bad harmonica playing. Or Jack's off-key singing. I think that Jack does think that Ennis is fun... certainly they had fun together, teasing each other on the mountain, skinny-dipping after the reunion. But I don't think Ennis realizes how much fun he really is.)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2006, 01:41:05 pm »
I would say that Jack didn't fall in love with fun. I mean, I think Ennis does think that Jack is fun. (I keep picturing Jack's exaggerated clowning around when Ennis tells him that "my daddy thought rodeo cowboys were a bunch of f***-ups." Or Jack's bad harmonica playing. Or Jack's off-key singing. I think that Jack does think that Ennis is fun... certainly they had fun together, teasing each other on the mountain, skinny-dipping after the reunion. But I don't think Ennis realizes how much fun he really is.)

Well, that's true! Jack is fun incarnate, espcially compared to what Ennis is used to. I guess I was thinking more in terms of their relationship, especially on the heels of Ennis' "I can't stand this no more, Jack." Living apart and keeping their feelings secret like that was not fun. So in other words, it doesn't have to be fun to be love. Plus, I imagine Ennis meaning "I wasn't much fun anyhow" as less a comment about himself in general, so much as that he wasn't fun for Cassie -- because he was pretty indifferent toward her and secretly longing for Jack the whole time.

I also thought that maybe just the very word "love" itself triggered an epiphany for Ennis. Something along the lines of, "Wow, Cassie was in love with me even after just a brief time of casual dating -- maybe what I've had with Jack for the past 20 years and the intense feelings we have for each other is love, too." (Duh!) And then by the time he says the word when talking to Alma Jr. he's decided that, you bet, it was love.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2006, 03:23:35 pm »
What do you all think he's thinking?


I think he's taken aback, - surprised - that she'd actually fallen in love with him. I also think that faced with her obvious pain, he's ashamed.
I think he's spent so much of his energy on "standing it" in relation to Jack during all those months away from him, that he has never really bothered to make an effort to define or understand what, exactly, he might mean to Cassie. He's just shied away from the whole issue. Moreover, Ennis doesn't like himself much. Not only doesn't he think himself "fun", he doesn't think there's much in him that another person would find to love or enjoy...... so the thought that someone else might actually fall in with him is not one that comes easy to him, if at all. I'm certain this colours his perception of what he means to Jack, too - as has been mentioned above.

~~~

Here's another thing I've been wondering about - a sort of double meaning in the short story. I was hoping the film would hint at the answer, but it didn't. In the short story, there's "an ancient magaizine photograph of some dark-haired movie star taped to the wall beside the bed"  in Jack's room in the farm at Lightning Flat.

Do you think the photo would be a female or male movie star?

At first reading I imagined it'd be Liz Taylor or some other actress, but then I changed my mind and decided it's a male star, perhaps from one of the western films back then. If it was some tough cowboy hero star, I doubt Jack's parents or anyone else would think anything of him having the photo on the wall.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 03:46:26 pm by Mikaela »

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2006, 03:48:47 pm »
I agree with you, Mikaela, that it would more likely be a male star, such as Montgomery Clift, because the epitome of male beauty back then was "Tall, dark, and handsome" while the female bombshells were more likely to be blond (except for Natalie Wood, she was the Catharine Zeta-Jones of her time).
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