Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way

[tiawahcowboy]

In the AP and the Movie, Mrs. Twist practiced Christian hospitality when Ennis came to her home. She was not merely being nice or pretending so, when she offered Ennis something to eat and drink while he was in her home. She knew that he had been travelling for a while and was probably hungry.

Since she was not in very good health, she offered what she had on hand. The biblical Greek word translated as "practice hospitality" means "the action of showing love to strangers."

I was watching PBS-TV last night and Bono mentioned what Jesus said in Matthew 25:31-40. Jesus said that if one invited a stranger in and gave him something to eat and drink, it was as though the person showed hospitality to himself in his name.

[Mikaela]

Popping in very quickly to say - Mel, I absolutely love this analysis of the church activities as the social glue and social norm setter of the community Ennis and his family lived in. Just the thing I was trying to piece together but couldn't quite manage to formulate in my previous question concerning the Del Mar family's church activities!

Also Katherine, very well put observations about Mrs. Twist and her acceptance of (Jack and) Ennis!

I've been wondering why his mother didn't introduce Jack to her pentecostal faith. It seems obvious that she must have been the positive, accepting and enabling influence on Jack that made him into the person he became as an adult. And yet, she didn't touch upon and include him in something as personal and as important to her as her religious beliefs. But perhaps John Twist denied her that, wanting the boy to at least grow up in the "proper church?"

Another thing I have been wondering, is why Junior feels the need to specifically say that the wedding will be at the Methodist church. I've imagined Ennis 8and his immediate family) would have continued as a Methodist since that's what his folks were. (I've even imagined that's where Ennis and Alma met. Ennis didn't go to school, he worked on lonesome ranches - chances are they did in fact meet at some church social, I suppose.) Then perhaps Monroe belonged to another church so that Alma and her daughters switched when Alma married Monroe........ 

If so, could Junior marrying in the Methodist Church be another nod from her to her daddy? Does she thereby want to show him that when she makes this life-long commitment she wants to do so in the church of her childhood, the church that he is familiar with? She probably has much better memories from that church picnic and other similar events than Ennis himself has.

Well, I'd really like to think that *could* be the reason for her mentioning the Methodist church specifically. But perhaps her doing so simply means that Kurt is not a methodist so they've been discussing which church to get married in.

I'd like to think one of the effects of that transformation is that society has a bit less influence on him now than it had for the previous 20 years.

I'd really like to think so, too. But the last image that the film leaves us with - the shirts still kept hidden in the closet - makes me less optimistic on that account. It's as if Ang Lee wants to stress that society's impact for men like Ennis hasn't changed much - it remains just as overwhelmingly limiting and crushing a force still at the end of those 20 years, - for Ennis, and for others like him.

[serious crayons]

I think the "ain't no angel like you and Jenny here" fits in with the examples I gave. I, at least, would leave out the Twist ranch scene (or maybe discuss it in a different sort of discussion of religion). ... First he's a part of it, and feels as his attraction to Jack is a sin. Then he withdraws from it, partly hinting that there's something wrong with him ("I ain't no angel"), but also partly hinting that there's something wrong with society ("that fire-and-brimstone crowd"). And then with his daughter's wedding, he's simply going to participate -- there aren't any references to sin or guilt. But he's going to be part of the community, in some sort of way.

I can't speak to Christian symbolism at the Twist ranch at all -- it doesn't resonate with me personally. Not saying that it isn't there, but that I'm not the right person to make sense of it.

Whew, Mel, this is getting so complicated! Because now I see what you're saying as far as "church" symbolically representing "society." In other words, in this context church is devoid of specifically religious meaning except to establish the metaphor -- "fire and brimstone" simply means "disapproving of homosexuality," and so on. That makes perfect sense to me.

I slightly disagree with one small point: I have always interpreted "the fire-and-brimstone crowd" not as a criticism by Ennis of church/society -- i.e., Ennis moving toward accepting himself and realizing the fault lies with others -- but more of a statement that as a "sinner" he doesn't feel comfortable in that millieu because they'll judge/disapprove of/suspect him. That is, as far as he's concerned the fault could still be his.

I think I understand your idea, though, and I really like it.

But what I was talking about, and there may be something to this also, is a way of interpreting Ennis' experience more in terms of religion specifically. I'm not the perfect analyst of this, either, in that I didn't grow up in a church and am not a Christian, so my knowledge of Christianity comes only from what I've heard or read or studied along the way. But I don't think it's an accident that Mrs. Twist is so explicitly identified as a Christian, that there's a cross behind her as she's comforting Ennis and so on. Or that his experience at the ranch coincides with a sort of redemption, after which he's ready to change his ways (go to Alma's wedding). That model would also fit with the other references to church.

But the last image that the film leaves us with - the shirts still kept hidden in the closet - makes me less optimistic on that account. It's as if Ang Lee wants to stress that society's impact for men like Ennis hasn't changed much - it remains just as overwhelmingly limiting and crushing a force still at the end of those 20 years, - for Ennis, and for others like him.

True, the closet is a powerful symbol. And I agree there's not much indication at the end of the movie that society has changed (unless you want to get back into the discussion of the tattooed woman!  )

But I do think there are lots of indications that Ennis has changed -- that is, become more accepting of his sexuality. So when I said society has less influence on him than before, I meant that he is now more willing to ignore society's rules (represented here by the roundup) and instead act on behalf of love (attend the wedding). Unfortunately, the closet stands as a reminder that, in the case of Jack if not Alma, his transformation comes too late.

[Mikaela]

But I do think there are lots of indications that Ennis has changed -- that is, become more accepting of his sexuality. So when I said society has less influence on him than before, I meant that he is now more willing to ignore society's rules (represented here by the roundup) and instead act on behalf of love (attend the wedding). Unfortunately, the closet stands as a reminder that, in the case of Jack if not Alma, his transformation comes too late.

Hmmm. I see what you mean - I agree on him accepting himself, having reached some point of peace with his nature. But he still keeps who he is hidden from everyone else than himself, away in that closet, and as such, I think society does have a strong influence on him - just as before, it makes him hide and conform and stay silent. Also, I would argue that him attending the wedding implies him conforming to society's rules, and not the oppsosite,  as I mentioned in my previous post. Unless US rural society is very different from the place where I live and grew up....... Over here at least,  "society" would really frown at a father who didn't move heaven and earth to attend his own daughter's wedding and walk her up the aisle if she wanted him to.

[tiawahcowboy]

I woud say the reason that Alma Jr. say the wedding would be at "the Methodist Church" might be the fact that it might be a different denominational church in Riverton than the one she attended with her mother, sister and possibly her dad when she was younger.

In the way the movie script has Alma and the kids talking about going to church in Ennis's presence and how he responds to that, without really putting going to church down, Ennis might have been going to church some, too.

While one does not see it in the movie, after Ennis and family moves to Riverton, He works 7 days a week, weekdays on the highway crew and weekends at the ranch where his has his horses boarded. I think his "fire and brimstone crowd" excuse for not going to the Saturday night church social was due to the fact that he was too tired to go anywhere.

[serious crayons]

Hmmm. I see what you mean - I agree on him accepting himself, having reached some point of peace with his nature. But he still keeps who he is hidden from everyone else than himself, away in that closet, and as such, I think society does have a strong influence on him - just as before, it makes him hide and conform and stay silent. Also, I would argue that him attending the wedding implies him conforming to society's rules, and not the oppsosite,  as I mentioned in my previous post. Unless US rural society is very different from the place where I live and grew up....... Over here at least,  "society" would really frown at a father who didn't move heaven and earth to attend his own daughter's wedding and walk her up the aisle if she wanted him to.

I agree. That is usually how it goes here, too. In this case, though, I think the metaphor has been turned around because it makes the point better. Before, Ennis rejected Alma's request to live with him because he had to work. And he told Jack they couldn't meet in August because he had to work. And he couldn't live with Jack in the first place because of he had a family and needed to "make a living."  So maybe instead of "society" we should call it "obligations." It's that trait in him that makes him feel he has to eat beans instead of sheep.

But at the end of the movie, he is finally able to do the latter. The reason he decides to go to the wedding isn't that he fears "society" would disapprove if he skipped it. (And the fact that he could lose his job would provide a socially acceptable excuse not to go.) Instead, he decides to go because he loves Alma and saw the disappointment in her face when he mentioned the roundup and realized that if he skipped her wedding she would be sad and doesn't want to repeat the mistake he made with Jack.

As for why he lives alone at the end, I see it less as a matter of hiding and conforming and staying silent because of his sexuality than because of his unsociable personality and his grief. Not that I see him leading a gay pride parade anytime soon, but to me it seems that shame about his sexuality is less a factor by this point.

[tiawahcowboy]

The Movie closet at the Twist home had a door on it and so did Ennis's trailer closet.

But, the Story closet in Jack's boyhood bedroom did not have a door because it just a shallow cavity in the wall with a cretonne fabric curtain hung from a string, closing it off from the bedroom. [Cretonne fabric is a type of upholstery material.]

And, in the Story, Ennis did not hang the shirts in the closet; he hung them on the trailer wall.

In the Bible story of Jesus dying on the cross, at the very moment he gave up his Spirit and died, the fabric curtain, aka the Veil  in front of the Holy of Holies, in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem split from the top down to the bottom. And, everything that had been hidden behind the curtain which only the high priest had seen only once a year was open to the other worshippers to see.

Story Jack had hidden the shirts on a nail (probably without a hanger), in a jog in the wall, in his Lightning Flat closet and I think that was his own "holy" place for the shirts. While many people believe his mother knew they were there, I personally don't think so. [Oh, the Bible word translated as "holy" does not alway refer to something consecrated by a religious leader; at times, it just means something designated as having a special purpose.

Since Ennis had opened the holy place in Jack's curtained closet, I say that his own holy place was the trailer wall in which he lived on the Stoutamire ranch.

[Ellemeno]

Meaning #3: Ever notice that the first line in the movie is Jack swearing, and the last line is "Jack, I swear..."?

Oh, this is going to be a great thread to catch up on, I can tell already.  Thank you, Katherine, for starting it, and thank you, nakymaton, for your pearls.  

Update: Okay, now I'm like 10 posts into this thread, and I feel sycophantic adoration for all of you - Amanda, Katherine, Lee, Mel, and others. 

Gosh I love this movie and this place.

[Mikaela]

The reason he decides to go to the wedding isn't that he fears "society" would disapprove if he skipped it.

No - I don't think he fears society - I'm just thinking that this once, society's rules and what he truly wishes to do based on love for another person are perfectly aligned - and that simplifies his decision, -strongly nudges him in that specific direction.

.....but to me it seems that shame about his sexuality is less a factor by this point.

Your view is a tad more optimistic than mine here! I think I really envy you.  

Though he's come to terms with what he had with Jack and what it truly meant to him, I still cannot help seeing...... well, if not shame - then at least a fear of other peoples' and society's disapprobation, or their meddling, or their lack of acceptance..... -  in him hiding the shirts in the closet. Then again, probably that last image is intended more as an emotional, poignant and visually stunning closing statement for the whole movie, its story and message - rather than a minute indication of Ennis's relation to society's norms at that specific point in time. I'd like to think you're right in this.

At any rate, I think at the end of the film Ennis has finally managed to fight down the cruel and crippling influence of his own father's abusive actions and prejudices, and if there are a few things to be happy about there at the end, surely the fact that he's welcoming in his daughter's love and showing his father's hatred and bigotry the door must be one of them....

[serious crayons]

At any rate, I think at the end of the film Ennis has finally managed to fight down the cruel and crippling influence of his own father's abusive actions and prejudices, and if there are a few things to be happy about there at the end, surely the fact that he's welcoming in his daughter's love and showing his father's hatred and bigotry the door must be one of them....

We can certainly agree on this! 

This movie is very ambiguous throughout, and the ending particularly so. I don't just mean the "I swear," but everything about the ending. How much, if any, did Ennis come to accept his sexuality? What did he finally realize about his relationship with Jack? We could argue endlessly, I suppose. But one thing for sure, I guess, is that he makes progress of some sort.