Love Scene

[Katie77]

Brokeback released me to live!

TampaTalon ^">

I guess those words say it all Tampa, and not only for people of the gay community, but I think it released a lot of us, from some kind of "closet".

[optom3]

I guess those words say it all Tampa, and not only for people of the gay community, but I think it released a lot of us, from some kind of "closet".

Could not agree more.For me as the tears flowed they acted like a release valve.All the things that had been festering away, buried so deep just rose to the surface and eploded out. I was no longer in a position to change anything, but at long last , at least I could acknowledge things.A much healthier state of mind was the result.

[Artiste]

So females have different closets too ?

Is that one reason why females relate to Ennis and Jack??

May I ask ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

So females have different closets too ?

Is that one reason why females relate to Ennis and Jack??

May I ask ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

Speaking for myself only, I can understand loving another woman and that not necessarily meaning I am gay.Humans have an infinite capacity for love, and it does not always need to be pigeon holed.
I think maybe men have a more difficult time separating love for a man with being gay.I am not really qualified to speak on that part though.I think that Ennis found the love of his life and that just happened to be another man, Jack.  He is not able to process or accept this and so begins the start of his slide into despair.I have never been 100% sold on the idea that Ennis is gay.He is certainly in love and physically very attracted to Jack, but I am not sure how far that makes him gay.
Jack is different, he loves Ennis, physically and emotionally, but he also has sex with other men.I think in his case he is almost certainly gay. As with everything to do with the film and s.s it is ambiguous and open to a whole host of interpretations.

So I think women can empathise on many levels, emotionally and physically.The added element is that for me the sex is also a turn on, as are the tender scenes.I would suspect for a straight man this might not be the case.But again because of societies unwritten rules that straight men have to follow, I don't suppose they would ever dare to admit if they found any aspect of the film a turn on, or even just tender and human.

It seems to me that it is still more acceptable for a woman to be physical with another woman, even if that is only a big long hug, in times of distress.We think nothing of it.Straight men are trapped by societies dictates..Even if their world is falling apart, they could on the whole, never sit and be hugged by even their best male friend.

It is something that has always saddened me, consequently I have taught both my boys to be very affectionate by showing them masses of physical affection.I also encouraged my husband to do the same.It is sad all the same when I see my boys being rebuffed if they try to hug a good friend who is leaving to go home.
Why is it acceptable for women, and not men. I fear my boys will end up the same as all the generations before them.Not because they feel like that, but because  others are embarrassed by the gesture. So back to square one.

Do men not hurt as well ? of course they do.So do they not then in times of distress need the human warmth from a good friend?Well of course is the answer to that one as well. So why does society find it unacceptable for men but not women.

I am on a roll now.I have recently had to tell my 11 year old son not to mention at school that when he is upset he still gets into bed with me.That is just plain wrong.He still needs his mum to hug him when he has a nightmare or a bad day.Yet I know full well that if other boys at school found out, there would be all sorts of implications and inferences.

It is of course O.K for my daughter to get into bed with me, but then her father has to get out, for the same reasons.The problem is that a few sick people, have taken away the joy of a parent to be able to provide comfort and physical affection ie hugs, to their kids when they are upset at night.When I told my oldest not to mention at school, I even began to feel like a criminal, for hugging my son. This world is a very mixed up place.Too much hate and not enough love and affection.

I believe that one of the main reasons some men have enormous difficulties in expressing any emotion is a fear of how society will judge them. I am not instantly branded gay, if I cuddle with my best friend.But if my husband were to do that,I can just imagine the reaction.I do feel that some of the mediterranean countries are several steps ahead of Britain and America. We could do worse than to copy them.I know when we left England my husband was terribly upset to say goodbye to his close friend, as was I.The difference, I hugged my friend as if my life depended on it. My husband and friend had a bit of that back clapping sort of thing, very sad.

O.K I am off my soap box now.

[Artiste]

Merci optom!

WELL said... are your messages in your post!!
...

May I add:

Men certainly view some sex scenes differently that women do... it seems, in the Brokekack Movie movie!

My straight brother advanced the first sex scene, and did so rapidly seeing what was starting to happen! Did any females do that, may I ask?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Katie77]

Once again Fiona, your words stir up memories, and and anxieties. I am so glad, when I had my kids, I did not have to contend with societies reactions to our actions with our own children. It pisses me off, that parents now, have in the back of their mind, that normal actions like your child getting into bed with you, may be looked at, as something wrong or dirty, damwell pisses me off. I am not pissed with the parents, but with society for making them that way.

It brought back a memory for me, that I cherish......Back in 1971, I was 19 and  7 months pregnant with my first son, my dear 22 yr old sister had just been killed in a boating accident, and at the time my husband was in the navy and we were on a navy base 8000 miles from my family. I flew down to Sydney to be with my family, and my husband had to stay at the naval base. One night, I was visiting some dear friends of mine and my sisters, they were my parents age, and the most beautiful and caring people you could imagine, and they were an enormous comfort to me in my time of grief. I was too upset to drive home from visiting them, so decided to stay the night. I went to bed, and my friends heard me crying, alone in my bed, so the wife, Rose, said, come in with us and we will give you a cuddle. I did not think twice, about crawling into their bed, slept in the middle of them, and felt the comfort and love from both of them.  Never once, did the thought that this was anything more than a parent/child sort of connection ever cross my mind or their mind. It was so natural and a normal occurence that I spoke about it to my friends and family later, in the same way as I spoke about them making me a cup of tea, and the reactions or non reactions from those I told, were the same as mine.

As I sit here now writing about it, I cherish the memory, and am overhwlemed with the fact that I was able to experience something so wonderful and remember that night, as one of the most beautiful outpoouring of love that some people never get the chance to experience.

[injest]

I have found this thread very enlightening with the views profiled here.
From my view as a gay male I remember being absolutely shocked at the
FNIT scene in a Tampa theatre that night. I did not know much about BBM
before I went but I knew I must see it. The sexual act of course did not shock me
and flowed very naturally but as soon as it was over I was startled. As I sat in the
theatre in the moment it was over you could hear a pin drop. Stunned I did not
believe I just saw such a private moment between the boys and felt like I had
stumbled into it, like walking in on your parents. I looked around and the audience
seemed to try to adjust themselves as well as I did back to normal. Or should I
use the world normal? After Brokeback life changed and never went back to what
was normal. Thanks to the boys and Brokeback. I never have to try to be the "old"
normal again.

Brokeback released me to live!

TampaTalon ^">

I just realized something...and it is so surprizing to me to have an epiphany about this movie after all this time, and after so many viewings. For a long time I have expressed my surprise (and chagrin) that my SON and I share the same taste in men, dark, affectionate, self confident, tall, good sense of humor, etc...

I just realized that in the FNIT, Jack imitates what my husband does when he wants to have sex.....when I am asleep or drifting off and he wants to 'test the water' he will send one hand over as a scout to see if I will welcome or reject it...Jack takes Ennis's hand and pulls it over to 'test the water'!!

It is another thing that reminds me (as if I need it) that gays and straights aren't that different after all. not really, not down deep where it matters.

[optom3]

I just realized something...and it is so surprizing to me to have an epiphany about this movie after all this time, and after so many viewings. For a long time I have expressed my surprise (and chagrin) that my SON and I share the same taste in men, dark, affectionate, self confident, tall, good sense of humor, etc...

I just realized that in the FNIT, Jack imitates what my husband does when he wants to have sex.....when I am asleep or drifting off and he wants to 'test the water' he will send one hand over as a scout to see if I will welcome or reject it...Jack takes Ennis's hand and pulls it over to 'test the water'!!

It is another thing that reminds me (as if I need it) that gays and straights aren't that different after all. not really, not down deep where it matters.

I thought BBM had revealed everything to me by now. What you say about your husband is exactly what mine does !!!  We are none of us that different.

[Mandy21]

Gabreya, thank you for starting this one.  Reading it now for the first time, it seems a lot of folks have something to get off their chests, so to speak, about these scenes.

To try to stay on topic, I, as a mostly-straight (I've kissed a couple girls myself, Fiona:), and it was lovely) woman, was gigantically turned on by both sex scenes.  Number 1, helllllooooo, it was Heath and Jake, for goodness' sake, and number 2, it was finally the culmination of what we, as viewers, knew would be the outcome (no pun intended, sorry), but that they, as Ennis and Jack, weren't sure would actually happen.  So the intrigue and mystery and waiting only added to the excitement of that first night.  Honestly, I didn't think it would be as quick as it was, but I'm guessing that's something the censors controlled, rather than truly reflecting reality between two men.  But then again, I've never in real life, seen two men making love for the first time, so what do I know?

I think everyone has certain sexual preferences, for lots of reasons.  Maybe based on what they've seen in the movies as they were growing up, or seen in real life, or something a lover turned them on to, or any number of other things.  I've never in my life judged two people who wanted to be together.  And if there's love involved, as opposed to just like or lust, then all the better.

It is unfortunate for men in this society, that they don't get the approval and/or opportunity, to express their affection or sadness or other emotions with men.  But women get to, without a second glance.  This has always bothered me, that old pat-two-or-three-times-hard-on-the-back hug thing that men do.  I think that's part of why I like BBM so much.  Ennis and Jack, they never did that.  Every time, it was either all or nothing between them, and when I say that, I mean, it started as a look, several looks actually, and a handshake.  Every reunion thereafter, including their final moments together (ouch!), was marked with the most giant of hugs and happiness and love oozing out of both of them.  I think they set an example that all men should see.  It's okay to express your emotions, not just to the women in your life, but to every person in your life.

And I agree with another thing on this thread.  Whenever I had a nightmare as a child and as a teenager back in the 80's, which was a lot, there was never a second's hesitation in crawling into bed between my mom and dad, and being comforted by both of them, back to slumber.  Was a simpler time then, I guess.  Sad to say.  I know I couldn't have made it through a lot of nights, without them there to assure me there'd be better dreams to come.  Some nights now, when I can't sleep, I drive over to my mom and dad's empty house, and crawl into that bed, somewhere in the crack, between the two pillows, where all my nightmares stopped...

[Katie77]

I agree with you Mandy about men showing affection to one another. If I see two men having a real strong lengthy hug, I get quite emotional, because it is such an outpouring of their feelings towards one another. Maybe because it only happens occassionally, when it does happen, it seems to be more sincere and spontaneous.

The hugs and holding between Jack and Ennis are so intense, you can hear the slaps on their jackets, see their bodies crushing into each other and feel the "cant get close enough" connection between the two of them.  Those grasping clutches, to me, had nothing to do with them being gay, but more to do with the fact that they competely adored and loved each other. It showed how comfortable they felt, attached to each other. Its like if they hold onto each other hard enough, nothing can separate them, and while they are attached, the rest of the world cant hurt them.

Regardless of the sex scenes, or whether a viewer of the movie approved of them or not, anyone with any feelings could not have ever doubted the intensity of their love while watching those bone crutching connections.