Shakesthegrounds Rumblings

[Lynne]

I like the 'spaination Aaron gives Christian in Latter Days, and I am parapharaising here:

"I think its everything, this, the stars...." I wish I knew the full quote.

Its my belief that all living things are an extention of God, which is why Jesus said we are all equal.

Truman - is this the scene you're talking about?  The setting is the airport hotel room after Christian and Aaron make love for the first time.  I couldn't find a reference with 'stars' searching the script.

Christian:  You know, I thought you'd be a little more reticent

Aaron:  Well... I'm already going to hell for kissing you so...I may as well take the scenic route

Christian:  What God do you believe in

Aaron:  It's not just God... it's everything... this... you... tonight.  I'm just... turning my back on it all.  But you know I guess... a guy like you really doesn't
know what that's like you know... to be completely cut off

To me this speaks more to the nature of hell - being alienation from God and family - instead of the fundamentalist Christian idea of a burning hell - than it does to the nature of God.  Tell me more what you're thinking about...

[ifyoucantfixit]

 
    That song brings the words of Dylan Thomas to mind.. " Do not go softly into that good night.  But rage against the
darkness."  Paraphrasing,,,,but you know what i mean...

    I dont let harsh words or derrogatory things go by unfettered either.  I always try to let people know I dont approve,
and that the things they do or say are hurtful, and mean, and i dont listen to that in my presence.  ..However I dont usually kid myself that when i go away they wont continue with the same behavior, and then even speak of myself as part of the group they are trying to assail...That is fine with me.  I do hope to be grouped if you will, with all people that are being marginalized or ill treated...But that is  how i have always been...So I dont kid myself that what i do or say has much impact on how people act overall..I think the only thing that changes these people  are time, and public opinion, and being told others wont accept the behavior either...They  only change when its in their best interest to do so...
    In otherwords when they, as their victims do.  Feel like they are no longer safe to act in a particular way.  I doubt
very seldom  you actually convert one of them...But i applaud the efforts you make when you try. I realize this is just my
opinion.  But it is what i have found to be the case overall.

[Lynne]

I hope so, that would be great!

I completely agree.

I dunno about that.  I think those first few months of new love are dangerous times...thrilling but dangerous.  Nothing is really sharp.  In fact, it's all pretty hazy; like seeing eveything through a filter, which is why we so often get our hearts broken.

Weird that I've experienced sharpness and you haze...but I completely agree that it's dangerous - because whatever chemistry is going on, it interferes with clarity of thought!

Lord don't I know that one, but I actually think the changes that we see coming and don't prepare for, or the situations that we knew would happen if we didn't make changes are hardest to bear because we could have done something.

Well said and one of the central themes of Brokeback that brought us all here in the first place, right?  Sometimes I wish there were solid answers to be had, but I suspect there aren't any - it's the process and the journey and a perpetual quest after some ephemeral truth...

[Lynne]

    That song brings the words of Dylan Thomas to mind.. " Do not go softly into that good night.  But rage against the
darkness."  Paraphrasing,,,,but you know what i mean...

I love that you quoted this, Janice!      Glory and I were talking just yesterday about what it might mean to age gracefully (or graciously) and whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to do it!

[Scott6373]

Well said and one of the central themes of Brokeback that brought us all here in the first place, right?  Sometimes I wish there were solid answers to be had, but I suspect there aren't any - it's the process and the journey and a perpetual quest after some ephemeral truth...

To quote another of my favorite movies (and I mean this with the royal "you"):  "You can't handle the truth", that's why most of the human race make up their own...LOL

[Lynne]

To quote another of my favorite movies (and I mean this with the royal "you"):  "You can't handle the truth", that's why most of the human race make up their own...LOL

Jack Nicholson, huh?     

[Scott6373]

Jack Nicholson, huh?    

Got that right darlin'!

[ifyoucantfixit]

       Therein lies the difficulty i believe Scott.  Truth is probably one thing, and each persons perception of it is different.
That is what makes communication so difficult...We all perceive as Annie said, according to our own life and history....and then
make our own endings accordingly...again paraphrasing.

[Scott6373]

       Therein lies the difficulty i believe Scott.  Truth is probably one thing, and each persons perception of it is different.
That is what makes communication so difficult...We all perceive as Annie said, according to our own life and history....and then
make our own endings accordingly...again paraphrasing.

I don't know if I agree completely with that.  I honestly believe that we all know the universal truths already, but we color them with our own desires as opposed to perceptions. 

Truman and I disagree on this point often:  We place expectations on those in our lives, and when they aren't met, we get hurt.  I'm not sure than any human being has the right to place expectations on anyone else.  If we accept people into our lives how they arrived without thought to what they bring to our lives then maybe we stand a better chance of learning and growing more from the experience.

[ifyoucantfixit]

         Well if you mean that by not placing any expectations on others nor try and make them into our vision, of how
we wish them to be.  That to me is good and bad..I dont believe we should try to make people into our own
ideal of them.  But on the other hand..If we do make a connection with people I do believe there are natural expectations
as to care and respectful behaviors.  It just depends on what you are looking for. 
         
         I dont think however we should be hurt if they dont see us, as we see ourself.. Or fulfill any expectation we may
have.  As I said before.  We always see everything according to our own experiences in life.  Its how the human animal
works.  We learn from our failures, more often unfortunately than from our successes.  Makes life a tougher road, but
there you are.