Mary Renault Book Discussion

[injest]

which this exchange between him and his father tells me that they had a fairly good relationship...

Alexias obviously has excellent manners and his father is kind 'benevolent' to him....he 'knows' that Alexias wants to 'slip the leash' and he evaluates the situation and lets him go..and Alexias proves himself by both being responsible with his time and his interaction with the man...Myron has done a good job with Alexias we have to give him the credit...

Note also we find that our 'ugly duckling' is a competitive runner now...imagine him at fifteen ....lithe and light...long legged...slender...turning now into a charmer himself!!

[Kerry]

such a proper young man...well brought up! you'll not find the son of Myron chatting up men in the marketplace!!

Forgive my inattention. A busy weekend and an equally busy day at the coalface today.

Particularly loved your succinct appraisal, above. Too true! Made me laugh!

Alexias appears to be developing into a handsome young man. He is certainly attracting attention. I particularly enjoyed the reference to the two men at his father’s dinner party. Both were shamelessly flirting with him. Alexias liked the chap who was polite and courteous, but he hated the “groper,” who put his hand up his tunic. So we know he’s not a flirt or a sycophant, who leads men on. He has principles – morals.

I was amused by the reference to the slave/chaperone, who came across as an old-maid-aunt-type-character, guarding his charge from the advances of potentially amorous suitors. Literally shooing them away! He may have to be reined in, though, ‘cause he has a tendency to also shoo away the cuties!

Certainly, the ugly duckling has been transfigured into a gorgeous young swan.

The relationship between father and son has changed significantly since chapter 2. But then again, a lot has transpired since then. The dreaded Rhodian has gone and in her place we have sweet, young Arete. Chalk and cheese!

Miron and Alexias are actually communicating in this chapter. Conversing. Sharing. Miron is proud to show his son off to his friends in the safety of the home, but careful to guard Alexias from harm in public. A good father.

More later.

[David In Indy]

<-------- is evesdropping. 

[injest]

the 'groper' Kritias...truly scum...make a note of him, he will show up again!!

[David In Indy]

the 'groper' Kritias...truly scum...make a note of him, he will show up again!!

 

Huh?

If you want me to leave Jess, just say so! 

[injest]

since you bring up the party...I loved Alexias response when told he would serve the men...

"'Who I?' I was much affronted; I had never been asked to serve tables, except at public dinners where lads of good family do it by custom. 'Are the slaves sick or what?'"

how typical!! teenagers are teenagers everywhere and anytime!!

[injest]

and he already knew Kritias...who seemed to already have a bit of a reputation among the young men...

"I was old enough to have received some attentions from men, while still young enough to think them rather absurd; as, for that matter, the kind of person who chases young boys usually is. But I had never been inclined to laugh at Kritias"

At the party Kritias waits til Myron is looking away...

"Kritias moved his cup a little, so that the wine spilled down my clothes. On this he put his hand under the hem of my tunic in such a way that, to everyone but me, he would have seemed to be feeling the cloth"

how arrogant and slimy!! right there in front of everyone he is groping this teen...and putting him in such a position he can't say anything without causing a scene.

what does this tell us about Kritias? He comes from a life of privilege...he feels that he is above the rules that others have to follow...that he views other people as things to be used for his own ends...

but I am probably coloring my opinion by what is coming rather than what is in this chapter!!

[Kerry]

<-------- is evesdropping. 

David you are very welcome to evesdrop any time you choose!    Better still, why not grab a copy of the book and join in?!  (PS - I am about to scoot over to look through your "serious" blog and hope to find pics of Oreo and Cody there)

Jess, I will be studying chapter 3 in depth tomorrow (photocopy and highlighter in hand!) and hope to post more, soon after. I will also be commenting on your two most recent posts at that time. Would you like to discuss a favourite scene? The Lysis / Socrates connection, perhaps?   

[injest]

ok...a bit of background first (for David the dropper of eaves)

at the first of the chapter Alexias arises early to go see the fleet about to embark on an invasion of Syracuse and to purchase flowers for a dinner party his father is giving that evening...he left in the dark and when he returns it is light and he finds the Herm out front of the house has been vandalized!! A troubling event...his father takes one look and says the house must be purified! About this time they hear a commotion; turns out several houses have had their Herms vandalized....

the city is in an uproar, this is a very bad omen to happen right on the eve of the launch of the new campaign....

Who has committed this outrage??! some say it is the Spartans, some that the Herms had been damaged here and there and no one noticed, some that this or that group had done it; and some accused Alkibiades (remember?? the young god who had once relieved himself in the garden of Alexias's house during a dinner party?)

Everyone is abuzz wondering who has brought this bad luck down on the city....

[injest]

but Alexias must go off to school....everyone is ill at ease and gossiping...he is relieved when it is time to burn off some energy in the gymnasium....they go out and strip off (remember this is Greece and all exercise is taken nude)...everyone is talking and yelling so loudly no one can hear so their instructor takes a few boys off to coach and set the rest to practising their wrestling moves.

Men who are not exercising, are strolling around the grounds arguing and debating who has committed this horrible outrage of destroying the Herms...Alkiabides is named as a possible suspect...gossip is that he broke the Herms in arrogance and a drunken spree...

(a bit of background...Socrates was Alkibiades's teacher, and people blame him for anything Alkibiades does wrong....he is not one to deal lightly with BS and tends to anger people who can not follow his logic so he is not well liked by the general populace)

So Alexias sees Socrates involved in a loud argument with a man and goes over to stretch his ears...the argument gets heated and the man gives Socrates a ringing blow on the head...everyone is outraged but Socrates is not...he nods at the man and says

"Thank you. Now we can all see the force of your arguement"

the man raises his fist to strike again and out from Socrates friends steps a young man...

"and caught the man by the wrist. I knew who it was, not only from seeing him with Socrates or about the city, but because there was a bronze statue of him in Mikkos's hallway, done when he was about sixteen. He was a former pupil, who had won a crown for wrestling, while still in school, at the Panathenaic Games. He was said too to have been among the notable beauties of his year, which one could still believe with no trouble. I saw his name every day, since it was written on the base of the statue; Lysis, son of Demokrates of OExone"

he calmly used a wrestling hold to force the man back and tumbled him down the steps and into the dirt of the wrestling grounds...much to the delight of the boys...

the men went about their conversation...and Alexias stood admiring Lysis...

then Lysis turned and saw him...

Kerry??

would you like to cover this scene for us??

LOL!