Author Topic: Sacrilege  (Read 14440 times)

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 11:47:40 pm »
I was just reading Phillips post, and my story is the reverse of his. Well, maybe not.

My parents insisted on exposing me to music. I started taking piano lessons at the age of 5 and violin lessons a few years later. I fell in love with the violin, so much in fact that I spent the next couple of years nagging my parents to let me take cello lessons too. They finally agreed, and my entire world was immersed in music. My life revolved around it. I loved the violin and cello so much I joined the Carmel Junior Symphony Orchestra by the age of 12 (in addition to the school orchestra). Later, in high school I joined the Carmel Symphony Orchestra. I loved playing in the orchestra and I was certain I wanted to make music my profession. After I graduated from high school, the conductor of the CSO, Victor Zydonis insisted I audition for ISO (Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra). I really thought my "dream" had come true. Now I had the opportunity to play with a major US orchestra and travel. But once I found out the salary I would have been paid, I gave up on the idea. It didn't pay enough; at least not enough at the entry level.

So, I decided to go to college. I decided to study Funeral Service. Why? I don't know. The pay was good, and I liked the idea of working in a profession where I could help people. So, I attended college and earned a three year degree (Indiana only requires a 2 year associate of science degree). After college, I spent the next several years working for a major funeral home in Indianapolis. But after a few years, I found it was draining me emotionally. I was working 70 hours a week, and I was surrounded by grief all the time.

So, I went back to college. This time I earned a degree in accounting. Then, another degree in photography.

Each and every time, I thought I was working towards my dream, and at the time, I think I probably was. But my dreams changed. And, sometimes I found out my "dream" really wasn't my dream at all.  I guess all we can really hope for is a content life, surrounded by people who love us.

I'm currently working as an accountant. I make a pretty good living. I'm not rich, but I'm not poor either. I have a nice house, a good job, lots of friends, a dog and a cat, and a wonderful boyfriend (who just happens to live in a different country in a far away continent, but I digress).

So, am I living my dream? I don't know. But if simply being happy and content is my dream, then I guess I am!  :D

I still play my music, and it brings me a lot of joy and comfort. But, I still saving up for that baby grand piano! Maybe someday!  :)

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injest

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2007, 11:53:11 pm »
I am not sure how many people achieve these things and it never gets reported or discussed.  Quiet victories are still victories.  Sometimes people can manage to do extraordinary things by taking serious risks.  I'm not one of those people.  My game plan has been to take incremental steps towards my greater goals.  In part, it helps build my confidence in myself and show that I can be successful in the things I try.  It's probably the better solution for people like me who probably would be devastated by a major catastrophic failure.  I think the best way people achieve success is to make a plan that carries with it reasonable risks and steps that can be tracked along the way towards a particular goal.  It may take longer than putting everything on the line at once, but I think it's more realistic for more cautious folks.

We also need to take better care of ourselves.  I've found things like eating right and exercise to be major helps in coping with stress, and being open and honest about your feelings with others also helps us cope with bad things that happen to us.  Not only did a psychologist assist me in helping deal with my mom, but also some counselling by the hospice care people.

Unfortunately, you can't rationalize love away.  It's sort of like the first person you truly fell in love with in your life.  With time the memories and the intensity of the feelings may become rarer, but if that person was right back in front of you, making you recall those memories, a lot of the feelings are likely to come back with them.  Jack and Ennis lived the lives society expected them to live.  Jack was prepared to dump Lureen the moment Ennis said yes -- she basically served as some sort of "next best thing."  Ennis drifted around as though he was a spectator to his own life, clueless as to how to manage the people around him, and the feelings they developed for him.  But the one thing both of them knew whenever they were together - Brokeback got them good, and they were powerless to change that.

This happens to a lot of people.  The best solution that has worked for me is to ask for help.  If you don't know how to get started, someone does, but none of us are psychic, so the only way someone can offer their own experiences is if they are asked.  What is often nice about asking is that you learn something you can then pass along to the next person who might be in the same boat you are, and helping others often feels wonderful.

I think you could read the regret on their faces as time passed, up until the point where the big blowup about "all we've got is Brokeback Mountain."  Jack and Ennis came to tolerate their 'unwritten agreement,' completely unfair and ridiculous it had come to be after all that time.  The whole thing was maddening to me, but then I didn't grow up in 1960s Wyoming and wasn't about to have my life's ambitions and measurement of success dictated by societal convention.  I was becoming as exasperated as Jack at the total lack of progress in making any change. The first time I saw the film, I thought for sure that Ennis' collapse on the ground was FINALLY a potential breakthrough moment, where Jack could finally say enough was enough and take a lead role in getting himself into Ennis' life, even if it meant building a cabin next door.  But it wasn't to be.

But ultimately, the opportunity to win in the end was taken away by Jack's death.  And after that, Ennis finally had his moment of clarity, of revelation and acceptance.  Unfortunately for him, it was too late.

Message to the rest of us: Don't let this happen to you!

and if you don't have anyone in your life to ask? If you are a kid in the middle of nowhere? and the people around you don't know the answer....or don't even understand the question...or even the reasoning behind the question? I know that my own family viewed me with suspision growing up because I read a lot...I was 'weird'....why would I want to go to college?

and counseling is wonderful if you can afford it...or have access to it. Small town USA is not the place to find it. Even the idea of eating right....poor people don't eat right because eating well costs a lot more than eating poorly. They are trapped by the lack of choices. Some have no cars or money for gas to drive the car they have....so they buy at convenience stores or try to buy things that last (high in preservatives) to save trips.

Reality.

I am probably not conveying what I am trying to say well....but I knew the idea wasn't gonna be popular when I started it...




Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2007, 11:58:56 pm »
My parents insisted on exposing me to music. I started taking piano lessons at the age of 5 and violin lessons a few years later.

Yes, we are on different tracks here, but they are at least next to each other.  I took clarinet lessons up until the 3rd grade in elementary school, at which point the teacher shared with my parents that my talents obviously laid elsewhere.  I didn't care enough to agree or disagree, really.  :)  I ended up in chorus as a soprano until puberty hit and my voice dropped.  The voice sounded better reading things to people than singing to them, so off towards the radio world I went.  I, like yourself, discovered the abusive pay that industry enjoyed putting on its employees, especially the on-air ones, so as a practicality, I jumped out of that as well.

The new reality in this country today suggests that people will change jobs and even career paths several times in their working life -- it's not so uncommon anymore.  We're all becoming our own free agents, representing ourselves first and foremost, and the company second (especially these days).  And I agree that dreams do change.  I've always told people headed for college to take as broad of a range of courses possible so they have a good foundation established that will assist them if/when their dreams or plans do change as well.

And that our dreams can and do change is not necessarily a threat to our happiness as individuals.  It's actually a good thing to have the freedom to explore those things and achieve them.
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injest

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2007, 12:03:44 am »
ok...let me try phrasing it like this...

reach for your dreams...work for them...

but learning to accept your limitations (the inevitable) seems a better choice for long term happiness!

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2007, 12:16:10 am »
ok...let me try phrasing it like this...

reach for your dreams...work for them...

but learning to accept your limitations (the inevitable) seems a better choice for long term happiness!

I think it depends on the person Jess. Some people aren't happy unless they are constantly reaching higher. Maybe their dream is in the "reaching", and not so much in the "attaining".

Others find happiness with what they have; or at least what is attainable, like you said. They find their dreams around them; in the family and friends. Everyone is different. Personally, I wouldn't spend my life striving for a dream if I knew it was impossible. That would be stupid on my part. I would be setting myself up for disappointment.

I would love to get married and have children of my own. This is one of my dreams. But it's not possible. Not for me anyhow. How could it be? It's not legally possible for me to marry the person I love, and it wouldn't be physically possible for us to have children of our own. It' just not possible, and it would be stupid to waste time trying to pursue it.

I think dreams are relative. Some people are already living their dream and they just don't know it. That was the point I was trying to make in my post.

Perhaps others would beg to differ with me.  :)
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injest

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2007, 12:21:24 am »
I think it depends on the person Jess. Some people aren't happy unless they are constantly reaching higher. Maybe their dream is in the "reaching", and not so much in the "attaining".

Others find happiness with what they have; or at least what is attainable, like you said. They find their dreams around them; in the family and friends. Everyone is different. Personally, I wouldn't spend my life striving for a dream if I knew it was impossible. That would be stupid on my part. I would be setting myself up for disappointment.

I would love to get married and have children of my own. This is one of my dreams. But it's not possible. Not for me anyhow. How could it be? It's not legally possible for me to marry the person I love, and it wouldn't be physically possible for us to have children of our own. It' just not possible, and it would be stupid to waste time trying to pursue it.

I think dreams are relative. Some people are already living their dream and they just don't know it. That was the point I was trying to make in my post.

Perhaps others would beg to differ with me.  :)

that is sad to me....

well, obviously I am not in the most cheerfulest (is that a word?) mood...so I will leave it at that...this is a question I have had about the movie for a while....whether we are looking at it from the wrong direction... :)

XX

{{{David}}}

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2007, 12:32:37 am »
I am having trouble posting here but this does so describe myself.  It is really hard to know exactly what to do to get started on your dream, what exactly to do and how to do it.  But without the dream then what else is there?

Still it is so hard when I know the things I want to do and what kind of life I want to have, but I have to just keeping forcing myself to do things that I don't particular care for or have interest in now just to make some money.

It is hard to know how to get started, but the dream hasn't gone away.  Actually it gets stronger and.....more frustrating somehow. But sometimes I don't know what to do.

yes, the first order of living is survival..I remember in one of the classes in high school there was an order of needs...what has to be taken care of before you can think of the other things...

if you are struggling with basic survival you can't move on to working on dreams....well... you can but it is much harder.




Offline Cameron

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2007, 12:46:28 am »
Yeah, thats the struggle, for me at least.

I don't have the time to become as good as I can be and think I can be in the things that I love to do because I have to spend time on my work.

But then I never feel good about work because its not what I really want to be doing and then I feel all guilty for not working as hard as I feel I am supposed to. So honestly I just end up all frustrated and confused ???



Offline Daniel

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2007, 01:23:35 am »
For me, Jess, I think I know where you are coming from (and so many others that have posted as well).

I know that when I went into college, I was planning on studying archaeology with plans to go into egyptology. There were a number of exciting discoveries made in the previous few years that I wanted to get in on, but the college that I was able to go to and could afford didn't really offer specialized courses in egyptology, but nevertheless I think I made a good choice. Anthropology was completely fascinating to me and the fact that I really knew how to observe people (from a lifetime of intellectual boredom I suppose) grabbed a hold of me. For three years of my five years in college I focused on anthropology and psychology courses, dipping now and then into archaeology. But what really interested me about archaeology I discovered was more studied in anthropology, namely politicial and religious anthropology. I still have no idea how to apply this particular information in the real world, though I thought I might be well suited for a counterintelligence role... but I have a somewhat unique understanding of the flow of power, through both symbolic interactions and political intrigue.

But what saddened me was that during my pursuit, my parents insisted several times that I change my major to business or something more applicable (mathematics, computer science - ick!) and could ensure a job for me in the "real world" as they called it. That certainly got me to thinking about how I could apply anthropology in the real world.... something that I could really have a passion for. I was completely immersed in celtic culture at the time, and did in depth-historical research into Ireland's cultures and cultural conflicts. I really began to understand how unique and important the Irish culture and people were for the entire planet, and how much they had suffered to keep their traditional cultural values intact. (Seriously, the death penalty for wearing green and gold). One of our anthropology/sociology courses studied cultural conflict, and I wrote a thesis for that class specifically detailing how cultural preservation programs and historical tourism could actually benefit among other things cultural education. So I thought about that for a very long time and decided to pursue an Interdisciplinary Degree which could combine anthropology, communications, history and marketing techniques in a specific way... namely through historical tourism. So I changed my major to the Interdisciplinary Studies and my parents were happier. I was accepted into an internship in a company that worked exclusively with historical/cultural tourism and I couldn't wait until I graduated. I was very excited (pumped, I believe is the vernacular.) and for the very first time it really felt like my life was heading in the right direction. I was planning to graduate in the summer of 2002.

Those plans of course were decimated by the events of September 11, 2001 and the resulting economic crash. The business that I had gotten the internship with went down, and tourism (which had been before then one of the fastest growing markets) seemed to completely drop from the global economic view. In fact, every other business and school in the area that pursued or taught skills specifically devoted to external tourism closed. I had never been so devastated in my life, and found myself in a lot of debt because the company (that had offered to pay for my tuition) had completely collapsed and could not afford even that small luxury. I couldn't afford to keep going to school, and as I was in my fifth year already, managed to piece together a degree in Anthropology with a minor in psychology. (There are a number of advanced degree programs that one can pursue with a minor in psychology). So now I had a college degree, but with no idea of where to go from here...

I certainly didn't give up on the idea that I could find something that would enthrall me that I could live with. I continued to dream and to strive towards them in whatever ways I could.  And that led me into my next career, my pursuit of an online program which would give me some wonderful new skills that I could use to help people, and which I found I could quite easily mesh together with my anthropological and psychological observation and application skills. The core of the matter is profoundly human, and all humans face imbalance in their lives. The holistic life coach can examine this imbalance and help lead people to a greater understanding of themselves, and whether or not they should "stand it" or "fix it".

Actually, to a great extent, holistic life coaching always assumes that a situation is fixable. Even if only a few small changes can be made. But if you want success stories of people who have gotten places after thinking for years that they couldn't, we have only to examine the case files of the holistic life coaches that I studied under.  The main thing is to keep active. NEVER give in to a situation that you can't stand and simply allow it to roll you into the mud. Make a plan of action. If you don't know what to do, find someone that does. I know some clients who didn't even know who to ask, and I advised them to do online searches, go to reading groups, or even ask complete strangers. The human question "Can you help me?" can engage anyone, and sometimes just engaging in a conversation with a stranger can shed enlightenment on the most mysterious or depressing of circumstances.  (This happens with business coaching a great deal, also. Entrepreneurs that have no idea how to do something, but know that they want to do it can find advice from someone.)
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Why do we believe what we believe?
Why do we accept what we accept?
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Offline dot-matrix

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2007, 02:32:45 am »
yes, the first order of living is survival..I remember in one of the classes in high school there was an order of needs...what has to be taken care of before you can think of the other things...

if you are struggling with basic survival you can't move on to working on dreams....well... you can but it is much harder.


EXACTLY!  This is the point I was trying in my inept way to share with you.  NO one said life was easy, especially for poor people with few options.  Even the comfortable don't always get a free ride.  Like Daniel, my husband is student of anthropology, it is his passion, he is an authority on the ancient cultures of the desert southwest with a particular emphasis on the Kayenta Anasazi  who are ancestors of the Hopi.  He spent many years participating in digs and crawling through cliff dwellings and other sights all over the 4 corners area.  BUT as you said the first priority is making a living at what you do and unless you have a name  that is widely recognized in Academia large universities DO NOT offer to underwrite your research.  So Bob teaches high school right now, which he loathes even thought he likes most of the kids, and he continues to work on his Phd and we spend darn near 4 weeks out of every summer cruising all over the southwest together and he spents a month alone on one university dig or another.  Well he ever be Dr. Bob, will he ever publish the reems of paper he has produced from his research so near and dear to his heart....who knows...but it is his dream and he is happy in the pursuit of it even if he never fully realizes it and I am happy working to support his dream.


I'm sorry about your Aunt Jess and I'm sorry that you are so down right now. {{{ Jess}}}}  I think you're accurate that the film can be interpreted that way if you want to look at it from the negative perspective.  But isn't the point of morality tales such as this to up lift and educate.  In that case I feel that the more positive intrepretation, the one we went with originally is probably the more accurate.
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