Author Topic: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109  (Read 4653 times)

Offline TOoP/Bruce

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,662
BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« on: June 16, 2007, 03:28:34 pm »
BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - vikramas1109 (Wed Apr 5 2006 16:54:34 )   

   
Okay, some brief background, I'm a 20+ year old straight male and film freak who saw BBM because I'm a huge fan of Ang Lee's work and was admittedly curious as to how he would handle the subject matter (and also, the cast list was pretty impressive, justifiably it seems). I re-watched it with a more critical eye just now, and wanted to comment on Ang Lee's subtle use of the camera throughout the film and how it contributed to the emotions of the story. Feel free to agree/disagree/ignore, whatever:

- The first thing I immediately noticed is that Lee hardly ever moves the camera, especially in the first half hour of film. He focuses on msie-en-scene instead, much like Ozu. Even if he does make a move, it is either usually a simple pan/tilt to keep the actors in frame as they walk or it is the naturally herky-jerky movement of handheld camera, which is employed in the most dramatic scenes to convey a sense of reality during intense dramatic confrontations (and prevent them from being melodramatic).

- Also, Lee and his DP Rodrigo Prieto use color and light to express the emotions of their two male leads quite a bit. The early, more innocent scenes are bright and blown out to show the vast empty space of the mountain and the initial seperation between Jack and Ennis, but as the story turns progressively darker and more muted, so does the film.

- Another "trick" that Lee uses is frequent medium two-shots of Jack and Ennis, often looking in the same direction for symmetry. It's a device that helps keep their connection immediate and visually represented. Also, the distance between them in any given shot is often a direct reflection of their emotional state in the scene (for example, the quarrel by the lake is mostly shown on over-the shoulder foreground looking at the other in the far background).

There are many more subtle specific camera moves, but these are the most prominent motifs with the use of the camera that I saw. Any others you can think of? I would like to keep this thread expanding - one of the most underrated aspects of Lee's skills is his composition and camerawork, and BBM highlights this beautifully, no?

"It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is: none. None more black." - Nigel

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - vaporize (Wed Apr 5 2006 16:59:32 )
   

I never really understood direction and what directors actually do. Now that you mention it, I would have to say Ang Lee's directing is the hugest asset of this movie.


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - reannawrites (Wed Apr 5 2006 17:15:32 )
   
   
Bump - Some very good points. I'll be the first to agree that the directing and camerawork were excellent and subtly guided the viewer...
will write more later - I suggest you save what you post on the board before it is deleted.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - naun (Wed Apr 5 2006 17:40:52 )   

   
UPDATED Wed Apr 5 2006 17:45:43
Thanks, some very nice observations here, and especially interesting to lay persons like myself who have an at best rudimentary understanding of such things.

One recurring trick that I found intriguing was the way many scenes are shot from a distance, and then we cut to the same shot from the same angle, but seen from much closer. I believe I've heard this trick referred to as an inline cut, though I could easily be mistaken. It reminds me of something Larry McMurtry said about small lives in big landscapes, and maybe serves as a visual encapsulation of that idea.

One other camera trick that struck me was the use of the closet door swinging on its hinge in the last scene. It produces a wipe effect that I find very reminiscent of some of the scene transitions in Hulk. But here -- I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something very arresting visually and emotionally about that door first swinging open and then darkening the screen as it swings shut.

The early, more innocent scenes are bright and blown out to show the vast empty space of the mountain and the initial seperation between Jack and Ennis, but as the story turns progressively darker and more muted, so does the film.


Something I really miss seeing the film on DVD is the sense of being out in the open in the broad daylight. It's such an important part of the emotional impact of the film.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - vikramas1109 (Wed Apr 5 2006 18:03:34 )
   
   
"One other camera trick that struck me was the use of the closet door swinging on its hinge in the last scene. It produces a wipe effect that I find very reminiscent of some of the scene transitions in Hulk. But here -- I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something very arresting visually and emotionally about that door first swinging open and then darkening the screen as it swings shut."

I agree, that's a fantastic transition, and the impact is devastating. My favorite shot in the film, however, is of course the famous shot of Ennis and the fireworks going off behind him (literally) and inside him (figuratively, as he finally releases some emotion in the form of anger and violence). Lots of levels working within the shot.

"It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is: none. None more black." - Nigel

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - stevme (Wed Apr 5 2006 17:44:50 )   

   
There is a thread on here from Casey Cornelius on "unusual camera move by the lake" that you might want to check out. I think your post is only the second on the topic of his framing of the film.

I noticed two scenes in particular regarding camera. The first is the argument between Ennis and Alma in the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner. He moves closer and closer and then around to directly see Alma, as you would want to see her, when she finally confronts Ennis over his infidelity. He does not move the camera, which would destroy your concentration, but instead changes the angle at critical moments during their argument. You get to see exactly what you want to see as the argument escalates.

The second is the scene outside the post office when Ennis receives the "Deceased" post card. Here, the camera circles around from a front shot of Ennis from slightly below, around his shoulder to look over it to see the card. We are brought closer to Ennis as a result of this, as if often done when two lovers are together and the camera circles around them, creating intimacy. Hitchcock, I believe, did the same thing in the first train scene after their dinner between Eva Marie Saint and Gary Grant in North by Northwest. Because a camera can't move around in the confines of the small railroad compartment, instead Cary and Eva circle around themselves. I always thought that was a bit contrived, but I understand that Hitchcock used it to create intimacy.

Why, in the initial scene, do we see Ennis through a passing train?

Steve

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - naun (Wed Apr 5 2006 17:49:33 )   

   
UPDATED Wed Apr 5 2006 17:54:31
The second is the scene outside the post office when Ennis receives the "Deceased" post card. Here, the camera circles around from a front shot of Ennis from slightly below, around his shoulder to look over it to see the card.

I've always found that over-the-shoulder shot to be reminiscent of the angle from which we see the 9-year-old Ennis being guided to the scene of the dead rancher. I think it's a hint that somewhere deep in his psyche he is making a connection between Jack's death and the rancher's.

Why, in the initial scene, do we see Ennis through a passing train?

Someone over at the Dave Cullen board suggested that the "snapshots" we see of Ennis between the carriages foreshadow the "snapshots" of the characters' lives over the course of the film. Trains are also a Freudian symbol of death that rather a lot of directors seem to like to use.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - vikramas1109 (Wed Apr 5 2006 18:07:53 )
   
   
The train is also a Freudian symbol of something else, obviously!

However, look at what actually happens in the shot. It seems to me that the train metaphorically cuts Ennis in half repeatedly. I think it foreshadows the pain he will go through in the course of the film.

"It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is: none. None more black." - Nigel

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - naun (Wed Apr 5 2006 18:54:25 )   

   
The train is also a Freudian symbol of something else, obviously!

Like in the closing shot of North by Northwest, you mean?

You mentioned your favourite shot in the film. Mine would probably be the shot in the "dozy embrace" scene where the two lovers are juxtaposed with the grazing horse on the left-hand side of the screen. Again, I can't put a finger on it, but there's something sublime about that picture.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - taj_e (Fri Apr 14 2006 08:37:39 )   

   
***Why, in the initial scene, do we see Ennis through a passing train?***
Thanks for asking this, and thanks John for your point of view

'I wish I know how to quit BBM...'

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bjblakeslee (Thu Apr 6 2006 04:29:02 )   

      
UPDATED Thu Apr 6 2006 04:30:50
The second is the scene outside the post office when Ennis receives the "Deceased" post card. Here, the camera circles around from a front shot of Ennis from slightly below, around his shoulder to look over it to see the card.


The tracking shot used to zero in on a small detail of huge story importance is a tool used by many directors - often to great effect. Hitchcock used it in Notorious in a gliding shot down over a party scene to zero in on Ingrid Berman fidgeting with a key.

There are those who see to hold Hulk against Mr. Lee, but I suspect what Mr. Lee was doing by taking on the Hulk project was familiarizing himself with the CG process. BBM is the beneficiary of several non-showy but devastatingly effective CG enhancements. 700 sheep were made to look like 2000. There were sky replacements, day-for-night shots, digital set extentions, and digital erasures. I also suspect some scenes are digital matte shots.




 Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bjblakeslee (Fri Apr 7 2006 09:25:52 )   

      
UPDATED Fri Apr 7 2006 10:15:04
I don't think I am remembering this wrong, but the scene with Ennis leaving the Riverton with the returned postcard seems to be different on the DVD.

I remember it in the theatre as a shot that tracks around Ennis in the street and stops to let you read the card in his hand - all in one unbroken shot. On the DVD it now stops behind his neck and it has a close-up cut in to read the card in his hand.

The first time I saw the movie, I missed what the card said. The second time I got it, but I remember thinking that it might have to change for the DVD because the print on the card would be too small to read on a TV screen.


 Shoot as fast as lightnin' but it loads a mite slow...


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - starboardlight (Sat Apr 8 2006 13:03:08 )
   

There are those who see to hold Hulk against Mr. Lee, but I suspect what Mr. Lee was doing by taking on the Hulk project was familiarizing himself with the CG process. BBM is the beneficiary of several non-showy but devastatingly effective CG enhancements. 700 sheep were made to look like 2000. There were sky replacements, day-for-night shots, digital set extentions, and digital erasures. I also suspect some scenes are digital matte shots.


Actually, Rodrigo Prieto said that they did no "day for night" shots. In addition, they did all their night shots with natural light, just because the location didn't allow for very much technology. That was a response to a question about the challenges to him as the cinematographer.

but i agree, the CG in this film was just flawlessly obscure. no one would have thought they used any CGs.






Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline TOoP/Bruce

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,662
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2007, 03:34:48 pm »
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - Jassy (Wed Apr 5 2006 18:44:38 )   

   
"I noticed two scenes in particular regarding camera. The first is the argument between Ennis and Alma in the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner. He moves closer and closer and then around to directly see Alma, as you would want to see her, when she finally confronts Ennis over his infidelity. He does not move the camera, which would destroy your concentration, but instead changes the angle at critical moments during their argument. You get to see exactly what you want to see as the argument escalates."

In an interview, Heath talked about the trick Ang Lee used for that theme. He talked about how Ang shot that scene from all 4 corners to get all the facial expressions he wanted. Then he edited them together. I couldn't wait to get my DVD so I could watch for this. I haven't seen the film since December.

I'm sure this film will be studied in film schools for years to come.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - zulovitz (Wed Apr 5 2006 23:13:48 )
   
   
Vikramas:

I'm a screenwriter, which means I'm also an avid watcher of films (and reader, as well).

Mr. Lee is one of few directors who directs his films with such care and intelligence. He works in different genres (EAT DRINK, MAN WOMAN; THE WEDDING BANQUET; THE ICE STORM; RIDE WITH THE DEVIL; CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON; THE HULK; BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN) and seems always to find a new and interesting way to tell the story. (Curtis Hanson also comes to mind.) However, he strikes me as someone who is particularly interested with "outcast" characters - people who live on the fringes of whatever society or milieu in which the story takes place. It's one of the reasons I connect with his work, for I too find myself writing stories that deal with a similar element. And too, Mr. Lee allows the characters to tell the story; he doesn't get in the way, doesn't feel the insecure preoccupation that too many directors do with jamming messages or specific agendas down the throats of viewers.

As for BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, my interpretation of his direction was that it was an extension of the character of Ennis Del Mar: quiet, stoic, somewhat removed. Also, when a director has a screenplay as stunning and honest as that written by Ms. Ossana and Mr. McMurtry, there's no need to distract an audience with whiplash editing and special effects.

Watching BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, I found myself noticing, too, Mr. Lee's use of closeups. At times, the utilization of such an angle felt similar to - but in no way a copy of - the films of Mr. Bergman. It made the film that much more personal, as if you were standing mere inches away from the characters, discerning from their expressions what their hearts wanted to say but which their minds would not permit them to say.

So unobtrusive was Mr. Lee's direction that one almost forgets he's watching a film (the sign of a truly great director). One is simply drawn in and then, two hours and fifteen minutes later, finds himself coming out of the experience as if from a fugue.

As for the final scene between Ennis and Jack, Mr. Lee has a shot of Jack in the f.g., with Ennis in the b.g. (as you noticed, too). Their relationship is at a turning point, moving into a territory from which they will never be able to return. Instead of banal expository dialogue, Mr. Lee informs the audience by slowly panning from over Jack's right shoulder to his left.

From the screenplay:

"Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter, the years of things unsaid and now unsayable--admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears--rise around them."

Eloquent, tragic beauty. And all done with a single, slow pan.

Also, Mr. Lee does something in the beginning and end of the film that I often find myself doing in my own writing: namely, visual bookends. He begins the film with a wide shot of the Wyoming landscape. A cattle truck enters frame; he cuts closer--two shots. Then, near the end of the film, as ENNIS drives away from the TWIST homestead, we again see a Wyoming landscape. ENNIS'S truck enters frame; Mr. Lee cuts closer--two shots. In the beginning of the film, the cattle truck carrying ENNIS is headed left; at the ending of the film, ENNIS'S truck is heading right. All told, four shots (combined) that paranthetically tie the film into a seamless, subtle whole.

Finally, Mr. Lee's attention to small details, buoyed, no doubt, by Ms. Ossana and Mr. McMurtry's gorgeous screenplay. For a film that follows its characters for thirty years ('63 to '83), there's only one superimposure used, at the beginning, which READS: SIGNAL, WYOMING 1963. The film - like Mr. Foote's TENDER MERCIES (directed by Bruce Beresford, 1983) - is told in an elliptical structure. The smallest details inform us of the time frame into which the story has moved, be it costume, hairstyle, furniture, etc. It's quite a feat.

One must also recognize--in addition to the director, actors, crew, editing, and Mr. Prieto's incredible cinematography (this is the best lensed film I have ever seen; often, I found myself gasping--along with the audience--at the breathtaking beauty of the scenes)--Mr. Santaolalla's score. It, too, seemed an extension of Ennis Del Mar: sparse, deceptively simple (though it's anything but), and more than a little melancholy. It beats beneath the film like a pining, timorous heart.

Film at its best is a marriage of the various threads that define the artistic medium. As joined in BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, guided by the gentle, assured hand of Mr. Lee, the film transcends mere entertainment to become a work of inspired, lasting art.

As for the latter, I am certain that time will only enhance and ensure such observations.

Great post by you. Keep watching.

Regards,

John



Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - SuperBatMan (Thu Apr 6 2006 00:00:00 )   

   
I think Ang Lee is one of the finest and versatile Directors to come in a while. I too am a film major, well film MINOR, or at least I plan to be, hehe. Anyways, I too noticed those Motifs. I think one of the best things about the film is the Directing, the story is right up there. The performances are great as well. He really made a bunch of B-list or FINE, teen queen stars, namely the female actors into bonafide Superstars!. The Mise-en-scene was AWESOME!. He did a great job at that.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - stevme (Thu Apr 6 2006 07:33:02 )   


"So unobtrusive was Mr. Lee's direction that one almost forgets he's watching a film (the sign of a truly great director). One is simply drawn in and then, two hours and fifteen minutes later, finds himself coming out of the experience as if from a fugue."

You have touched on something here that was absolutely stunning about this film. My very first reaction after having left the theater was "that was not even a movie!" What it was, I can still not describe adequately. The experience was so direct and penetrating that one lost the sense of "willing suspension of disbelief" that accompanies a play or film, as is suggested in your quote above.

Other viewers have commented about how "real" the characters seemed, and Annie Proulx commented to the effect that the movie created, "living, breathing beings". This must, as you say, have to do with Ang's direction, but credit also has to be given to the wonderfully complex characters and versimilitude of place that is Annie Proulx's work, and its translation and expansion for the screen by McMurtry and Ossana. So, too, the pitch perfect acting must receive its due. In Ledger's performance we have a brooding, Hamlet-like figure deeply textured with meaning, and Gyllenhaal adds insouciance, romance and lyricism.

While one should attempt to untangle the sources of this work's power, I think the exercise is one in which all of its elements must be sharply brought into view, as you have done with one --- your comments on Ang Lee's direction.


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - meryl_88 (Thu Apr 6 2006 09:42:56 )   

   
As for BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, my interpretation of his direction was that it was an extension of the character of Ennis Del Mar: quiet, stoic, somewhat removed.

zulovitz, thanks for that lovely insight, along with your other comments. Even though I've seen some of those things noted before, I love the way you describe them.

vikramas, thanks for starting another camera/Ang discussion.
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   

  by - Jassy (Thu Apr 6 2006 11:59:38 )   
   
John, thanks for a wonderful post. I'll look for more details you pointed out when I get my DVD.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - muscla_1 (Thu Apr 6 2006 22:29:32 )
   
   
So unobtrusive was Mr. Lee's direction that one almost forgets he's watching a film (the sign of a truly great director). One is simply drawn in and then, two hours and fifteen minutes later, finds himself coming out of the experience as if from a fugue.
Amen to that.

Adding to this effect was Ledger's breathtakingly absolute and total disappearance into the character. He wasn't an actor playing Ennis del Mar, he WAS Ennis del Mar.

It was one of the damned few times I felt that I forgot I was in a theater watching a film, but transported to being a viewer watching a real drama unfold before me.

For very different reasons, I had the same feeling watching the middle installment of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I simply was in another place and time.

"Jack, I swear..."

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - zulovitz (Thu Apr 6 2006 13:25:45 )   

   
Actually, Mr. Lee is known to work closely with the members of his crew. It was one of the things that so surprised Ms. Thompson when she worked with Mr. Lee on SENSE AND SENSIBILITY. Mr. Lee begins each day with meditation and exercises - for everyone. It's about focus and relaxation.


He also has his actors, on their first day of shooting, film the more difficult scenes. It was something that surprised both Mr. Ledger and Ms. Williams; however, it allowed them to have a history of the more central conflicts in the characters' relationship, thus allowing them to have the experience to draw upon during the rest of the shoot.

As for standard camera angles - what directors haven't been influenced by the directors who came before them? Despite the socio -political and -cultural elements of his work, Mr. Griffith is often regarded more for his ability to tell a story visually (example: use of montage).

Consider any genre, and think of the classic and modern films. The latter are often influenced by the former. An example: THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. Mr. Demme directed this film much as Sir Alfred Hitchcock might have directed it. Mr. Demme presented scenes built upon the "suggestion" of violence, in lieu of presenting said violence in a crude, gratuitous manner. Too, he incorporated the use of subjective camera, which worked very well, considering the film was told from the Clarice's (the subject, the central character) P.O.V.

A great director understands the importance of film being a collaborative effort; his (or her) job is akin to that of a conductor standing before an orchestra. It's one of the reasons, I think, that Mr. Altman makes such wonderful films: M*A*S*H, McCABE & MRS. MILLER, NASHVILLE, THE PLAYER, SHORT CUTS, GOSFORD PARK, to name a few.

It has been said that there are no "original" stories anymore. Given the exhausted redux being produced by many studios today (remakes, sequels, etc.), it wouldn't be impertinent to think that - at least for those people in powerful positions - this is true.

However, what makes some films so stunning and creative is the angle at which the director (and crew) approaches the story. It's about taking staid formulas and breathing life into them, which initially is discovered in the reading of the screenplay. This is something of which Mr. Lumet (12 ANGRY MEN, SERPICO, DOG DAY AFTERNOON, NETWORK, THE VERDICT, RUNNING ON EMPTY) speaks so eloquently in his book, MAKING MOVIES.

As for Mr. Lee and BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, he allowed every element of the film - from direction, cinematography, acting, score, etc. - to reflect the characters' themselves; in short, the "story." And, as I've stated, he brought together a wonderful collection of people to realize this similar vision. I commend the work of everyone on this film, as I also stated in my earlier post. However, it is Mr. Lee's approach to the material - from Ms. Proulx's stunning, classic story to Ms. Ossana and Mr. McMurtry's razor-sharp adaptation - that allowed this film to be what it is: one of the best motion pictures of its decade. One of the best, frankly, in the history of the cinema. Such may seem a prodigious claim to make, yet given the final product, it's neither bloated or untrue.

Regards,

John

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - n-maree (Thu Apr 6 2006 19:42:53 )
   
   
stevme, you mentioned the post written by Casey Cornelius. I happened to save that post because I thought it explained things so well. It was written a few months ago so might be hard to find, so I'm going to copy and paste it here. It's very interesting, not just for film students but for anyone who wants a little more insight into the characters.

___________________________________________________________________________
Casey Cornelius
Jack and Ennis - Lake Scene and A Unique Camera Move:
Several threads on the site have debated Jack's and Ennis's last meeting in the film and whether it presents the possibility that Jack has had enough and is ready to 'move on' out of frustration with Ennis's inability to commit. One can speculate strongly that Jack has already initiated another affair with Randall, the Childress ranch foreman with the talkative wife who essentially propositions Jack outside the dance - an elaborate topic already taking up a number of threads.

Ang Lee, however, is able to suggest it with a unique camera move I have never previously seen used in film. For those who have seen the film, remember that as Jack faces the mountain lake and listens to Ennis's litany of excuses, at this point familiar to Jack, why he can't meet in August, the camera is focused on Jack, 'hiding' Ennis behind him. Then the camera begins to track to the left holding Jack stationary in the foreground as Ennis in the background, but still in focus, emerges into the frame listing his options. I was reminded of a scale tipping to one side, as if Jack is weighing the discussion and how he will react to it. The camera even seems to oscillate or quiver hesitantly from the momentum as it is poised on the image including both of them - foreground and background. Then, the camera reverses direction and tracks back across Jack to the right [ the scale allusion confirmed ] as Ennis 'disappears' once more behind Jack to eventually emerge to Jack's right, this time blurred and SLIGHTLY OUT OF FOCUS.
What more economical way for Lee to show Jack's decision, in 'weighing' the options, to finally in exasperation give up on the excuses Ennis offers and lose Ennis as his sole emotional 'focus'. I know the scene ends with the two of them seeming to 'torque' things back to the way they were. However, I can't help but think that Ang Lee has shown his hand as far as he's concerned with this elaborate CONTINUOUS camera move.
I was so taken with the dialogue in the scene and the emotional content in my first few viewings of the film that I completely missed this. A complex camera move which would have required a great deal of planning, experimentation, and rehearsal with the actors, and demanded considerable expertise in order to show Ennis emerging out from behind Jack both in focus and out of focus within the same continuous shot.
But, it's there, clear as day. A subtle but brilliant camera move by Ang Lee and Director of Photography, Rodrigo Prieto, as innovative and revealing as other of the greatest camera moves used by Michelangelo Antonioni, Andrei Tarkovsky, and Ingmar Bergman.
If someone else knows of this being used previously in film history, let's talk.

I am astonished more and more with every viewing of this miracle of a film.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - muscla_1 (Thu Apr 6 2006 22:35:03 )   

   
However, what makes some films so stunning and creative is the angle at which the director (and crew) approaches the story. It's about taking staid formulas and breathing life into them, which initially is discovered in the reading of the screenplay. This is something of which Mr. Lumet (12 ANGRY MEN, SERPICO, DOG DAY AFTERNOON, NETWORK, THE VERDICT, RUNNING ON EMPTY) speaks so eloquently in his book, MAKING MOVIES.
Mad props for the screenplay of running on empty, written by

are you ready?

Jake's mom.

"Jack, I swear..."

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - zulovitz (Sat Apr 8 2006 03:12:27 )
   
   
Yes, her name is Naomi Foner. Jake's father is a director, named Stephen. They've done some good work together (see A DANGEROUS WOMAN, based on the novel by Mary McGarry Morris).

The strange thing is, when I mentioned RUNNING ON EMPTY in an earlier post, I didn't even think of the familial connection; rather, I was thinking of the films Mr. Lumet has directed that I consider some of his best.

As for "mad props," it's not a language I speak, if you will. To me, when I mention work that I've found particularly good (sometimes even great), I think of it more in terms of admiration. Of respect.


John
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline TOoP/Bruce

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,662
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2007, 03:39:17 pm »
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - christian-posch (Fri Apr 7 2006 10:32:40 )
   
   
First of all thanks for this wonderful thread. In times of troll-invasion that's a real plaesure to read.
I have to admitt, that I don't know much about camera-work, but what I definitely know is, that I really love how Ang Lee works with pictures!!
My favourite shot in the movie is also that on, when Ennis stands in front of the firework. It's a very strong scene.

It has been a long time since I've seen the movie. And I'm afraid I have to wait a few more days till I get my DVD shipped from the US to Austria. But then I will watch the movie very carefully and really would like to discuss things with you guys.

Pleas keep this thread alive!!

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - oilgun (Fri Apr 7 2006 12:37:53 )
   

Just when I had given up on this message board I find this wonderful thread. This is basically just a bump so I can find it later.

They have witnessed a kind of fury in him that they have never seen before-BBM

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - starboardlight (Sat Apr 8 2006 12:54:39 )
   
   
UPDATED Sat Apr 8 2006 12:56:10
In a Q&A with Heath and Michelle in LA, Heath talked about a "trick" that Ang does, not so much with the camera but rather the editing. The director will shoot a scene from four angles, (N, S, E, W). When editing, he'll intercut the exact opposite points of view together. For example, we'll start with a view from the north, and change immdiately to a view from the south, change to one from the west, then cut to one from the east. Heath describes this as "crossing the line" in that when two actors are interacting there is a line between them. As the camera point of view shift to the exact opposite side, it crosses the line between the actors. This is something that most directors will avoid, because in the scene, the actors will appear to switch sides and can often confuse the audience. Heath said that it's Ang's brilliance that allows him to pull it off. The payoff for us is that, it makes the audience feel like they actually move through the space between the actors, allowing us to be intimately in the scene. He says that this is used most effectively in the more intense scenes, like the during the Thanksgiving kitchen confrontation or the lake side showdown.




Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - BannerHill (Sat Apr 8 2006 13:18:44 )   

   
How about the use of 'racking'? In Aquirre's trailer, the camera racks down with Aguiree when he sits down to address the guys. In Jack's upstairs bedroom, the camera racks down when Ennis sits down at the window. I think it racks up when Ennis stands up and walks towards the closet. I think the purpose was to create intimacy with the actor...



"Hey Ennis, do you know someone named 'Jack'?"

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - phoebe26 (Sat Apr 8 2006 18:37:22 )   

   
I also noticed, and was quite amazed by, this "crossing the line"-phenomenon in another intense scene: the reunion. Every time they kiss or keep their heads close together in that sequence the camera's POV shift to the opposite side. What a brilliant way of letting the viewer into the scene, allowing us the feeling of being there in person, observing, getting drawn into the action. It truly makes it so much more intimate. Hats off to Ang Lee.

What a great thread this is! I love analyses and discussions about camera work and editing. Keep the insightful thoughts coming!


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bbmtwy (Sat Apr 8 2006 18:58:23 )
   
   
UPDATED Sat Apr 8 2006 19:00:55
These may have been mentioned already. There are at least two very dramatic camera movements:

(1) In the "lake scene" when Jack and Ennis are finally having their showdown (scene 16 on the DVD), the camera is behind Jack looking at Ennis. It moves slowly, laterally, from side to side, behind Jack to the other side, then moves back. Neither Ennis nor Jack moves, but Ennis goes in and out of view. Since the camera is not showing action but rather is suggesting movement that is not there, this effect builds up tremendous tension. We know that something dramatic is about to happen. And it does. Stunning.

(2) When Ennis gets the postcard announcing the terrible news, the camera does much the same thing, hovers over his head, emphasizes the fact that Ennis has received something more than just ordinary mail.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - Jassy (Sun Apr 9 2006 16:59:06 )
   
   
UPDATED Sun Apr 9 2006 17:04:38
I got my DVD from amazon yesterday and of course, I watched it last night. That was only my 3rd viewing. I watched it twice in theaters four months ago: December 9 - opening weekend - and December 17. I watched all the camera work mentioned and I did catch a lot more. I was surprised to find several scenes where the camera work was different from how I remember from December.

The biggest surprise was the last shot. I remember the window was in dead center in the last shot. Before that, it's half covered by the closet door. When Ennis closed it, I didn't remember seeing his hand or the glimp of him walking away. I remember it just showed the closet door being closed and after that, just a close up of the window in the center of the screen. Now on the DVD, it shows Ennis closed the door and walked away. After that, it showed the closed closet door on the left and the window was off center on the right at an angle. I like the way I remember better than the DVD version. I wonder whether the film got re-edited since I watched it in early December or my memory was so lousy that I got it wrong. Did anyone here watch it early December can remember this?

Another shot was different from my memory was the shot where Jack said: "I wish I knew how to quit you." I remember the camera was behind his right shoulder and on DVD, it's behind his left shoulder. This one didn't make as much difference as the last shot. Either way would be fine with me.

I noticed the shots of Jack and Ennis at the lake scene and the shots when Ennis got his last post card. But the shot of Ennis in Jack's boyhood room didn't pin out as described. When the camera swing to Ennis at the window, the camera was already lowered because he's crunching. So when he sat down, the camera didn't move at all.

The camera work at the kitchen confrontation between Ennis and Alma is really interesting. Not only the angle of the camera keeps shifting, the position of the camera keeps changing too. Alma was facing the sink and Ennis was facing the opposite direction. One minute the camera was from Ennis's front slightly to the right of him so it would capture his facial expression; another it was close in from his immediate right so it would capture Alma's profile. Then it shifted to the front of Alma (I wonder how the set was constructed to allow the camera to capture her face from the front considering the sink was in the way). I think it also moved to the immediate right of Alma to capture both her and Ennis. It does seem Ang shot the scene from all angles and edited them together.

BTW, I freezed the shot of Jack being beaten that Ennis imagined. He did have the mustache on. Also, as I thought from the first two viewings, I don't think Lureen knew Ennis' relationship to Jack and what Brokeback Mountain signified to her husband until Ennis told her over the phone. From Ennis's brief explanation how they herded sheep on Brokeback in 1963, Lureen realized for the first time that Brokeback was Jack's favorite place because of Ennis. Her facial expression changed and her voice had a small catch in it after that when she suggested Ennis to get the ashes from Jack's parents. That was very good acting.

The DVD shows brighter than the movie in the theaters I watched it in. I caught a lot more details. The clouds in the beginning scene when Ennis was walking to the trailor after jumping out of the 16 wheeler looks very "paint-on". I know they replaced the sky with CGI in some scenes. I'll bet money that was one. It looks like a bad photoshop job. I didn't detect other bad ones.

Plus, Ang said in an interview that he used the photobook "American West" as an inspiration for the cinematography. He mentioned he noticed how most of the photos in that book were captured with the camera tilting up ward to capture the sky. He used the same technique in the film to capture all those clouds in the sky. As a photographer myself, I found Wyoming's moody sky captivating. It's really in the "Big Sky" country. DP said in the bonus feature that Ang Lee had very specific ideas about how the camera should position. Ang really knows how to compose shots.

Finally, I'm very happy with my wide screen TV. This film fits my screen perfectly with no black bar whatsoever, unlike some other films.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bbmtwy (Sun Apr 9 2006 20:21:22 )
   
   
For me, one of the fascinating aspects of this film is what it seems to do to the viewer. I saw it 6 times in theaters (between December 9 and March 24) and each time saw things that I swear were not there the previous time. But I know they were. My friends had similar experiences. The movie is simply mesmerizing. Yes, there are artificial details here and there, makeup, etc., but that doesn't bother me. Lee was working with a very tight budget and I'm grateful the film got made, and that Lee made it. As for the last shot, every time I've seen it the last frame is split down the middle between the closet door and the window - showing the countryside in the distance. I would have framed it differently and was a little disappointed at my first viewing. But I have enormous respect for Lee's vision and I liked the last shot from then on. Never before have I seen a film that almost demands multiple viewings. As for Jack when he says "I wish I knew how to quit you" he's always facing the lake, some distance from the camera. I love the sequence when Ennis visits Jack's room. Ennis sits on the stool by the window. Cut to XLS of Ennis from INSIDE Jack's closet. Isn't that Jack looking at Ennis - hoping he'll come forward? It is only when he does, and finds the shirts, that Ennis finally realizes how much Jack loved him.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - Jassy (Sun Apr 9 2006 20:43:40 )
   
   
"As for the last shot, every time I've seen it the last frame is split down the middle between the closet door and the window - showing the countryside in the distance."

That's how I remember too and I loved that. But on the DVD, it's different as I described above. Did Ang re-edit it for the DVD?

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - ronnie27 (Sun Apr 9 2006 21:11:29 )   

   
I love this discussion, I'm learning so much...thanks for starting it!

<<It made the film that much more personal, as if you were standing mere inches away from the characters, discerning from their expressions what their hearts wanted to say but which their minds would not permit them to say. >>

Thanks for your wonderful posts, John. I also noticed the close-ups. I remember after one viewing I told a friend that it was as if you were there, eavesdropping on the conversation...like when Jack and Ennis are talking on the mountain "This is a one-shot thing"...And I think you're right (or whoever said it) when you say that that is what makes this film stick with you for so long and the characters seem so real. You are there with them, a part of the story. Also I had noticed the cross over shots, but didn't know what they were called. I am glad to know what's behind them.

I have questions that I hope haven't already been answered and I missed it. 1. In the motel scene why do they shoot Jack and half of Ennis' head when both would have fit in the frame? I know Ennis is angled away from Jack, but would that matter? It just seemed weird to leave one of them half out of sight. 2. I noticed that many times Jack and Ennis are at sort of right angles to each other--like in the motel, or during the "one-shot thing" scene on the mountain. Is there a reason for this?

Thanks again!

"Swear to God, I didn't know we was gonna get into this again." Jack Twist

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - stevme (Mon Apr 10 2006 17:57:41 )
   
   
"Cut to XLS of Ennis from INSIDE Jack's closet. Isn't that Jack looking at Ennis - hoping he'll come forward? It is only when he does, and finds the shirts, that Ennis finally realizes how much Jack loved him. "

Excellent. Indeed, Jack beckons Ennis. Very good.
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline TOoP/Bruce

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,662
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 03:41:28 pm »
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - taj_e (Mon Apr 10 2006 13:06:51 )   

   
Lee's background had surely helped. Especially on the colors
I am still amazed how 'little scripts' it was, I still feel that BBM was rich in it. Every scene speaks thousands of words. It was heavy

I remember reading Lee's comment that he tends to place the camera facing up, while there's lots to see on the ground, the skies was tempting as well

Proulx herself has been known to play with nature/culture extensively. This might helped Lee as well. The fact that the scene was real. Seeing all the pictures/images of Wyoming etc posted in here says it all

Plus the soundtrack. It was perfect! Brilliant!

'I wish I know how to quit BBM...'

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bbmtwy (Mon Apr 10 2006 13:18:45 )   

   
The script is so tight. The situations and dialogue may seem plain - but change one word or one inflection or change the timing - and I think you upset a delicate balance and change the film. Every little detail says something about the personalities and feelings of these guys.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - ronnie27 (Mon Apr 10 2006 18:29:03 )   

   
<<from INSIDE Jack's closet. Isn't that Jack looking at Ennis - hoping he'll come forward? It is only when he does, and finds the shirts, that Ennis finally realizes how much Jack loved him.>>


Yes, Jack's spirit is there drawing Ennis to the shirts. Later, as Ennis walks away from the house, you can see that the window is still open. I couldn't help feeling that now that the shirts were in his love's possession, Jack's spirit was set free through that open window.

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - bbmtwy (Mon Apr 10 2006 19:24:43 )   


". . . you can see that the window is still open. I couldn't help feeling that now that the shirts were in his love's possession, Jack's spirit was set free through that open window."

Great observation. I never thought of it. The film is endlessly rich. But . . . it's also not essential to perceive all those metaphors. You can enjoy the film just on an elementary level. That's what makes it so great.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - ronnie27 (Mon Apr 10 2006 19:53:00 )   


<<it's also not essential to perceive all those metaphors. You can enjoy the film just on an elementary level. That's what makes it so great. >>

Agreed. I didn't realize there were so many layers. Reading and learning about all the symbolism holds a fascination for me. I think you are right in that it has created a richness that makes Jack's and Ennis' story take on a depth and breadth I've never experienced. My eyes have been opened and I don't think I'll ever look at another movie simplistically again, for better or worse. I'd never really thought about how much thought and vision goes into a film. I don't know if all of the symbols are what Ang had in his mind or just people reading things into it, but if only part of them are correct, he's amazing!

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - pkdetroit (Fri Apr 14 2006 06:48:43 )   

   
ronnie27 writes "I'd never really thought about how much thought and vision goes into a film."

Unfortunately many directors/producers do not put as much thought into their films as Ang Lee has in Brokeback. And the "vision" of way too many auteurs is so obscure who is getting the message?

Thanks to the OP for starting this intelligent thread...has the day of the troll passed? 

John, your posts should be required reading for serious Brokeback fans.

"It was the Summer that Sebastian and I went to the Incantadas"
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline TOoP/Bruce

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,662
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 03:47:03 pm »
This Movie won AA for Cinematograpy?   
  by - diesel_100 (Mon Apr 10 2006 18:39:47 )
   
   
I am seriously disappointed with the CGI used to spruce up BBM. Ang deserves credit for his great direction and the shots are well composed ny DP, but come on, CGI on the lighting, etc? Laid next to the ignored cine, in Capote, BBM is cartoonish.

Re: This Movie won AA for Cinematograpy?   
  by - bbmtwy (Mon Apr 10 2006 19:29:27 )   

   
No, it didn't win an AA for cinematography. Aside from the CGI, there were some other weak aspects, also. I thought the makeup could have been better. But Lee was working with a cruelly tight budget and maybe that's the best he could do. He brought the film in within budget, didn't go a penny over. Look on the positive side. The weaknesses are overwhelmed by so many qualities.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: This Movie won AA for Cinematograpy?   
  by - diesel_100 (Mon Apr 10 2006 19:42:10 )
   

No disrespect for some amazing work in this picture. I thought it won for cinematography, maybe just nominated.

I think the picture was phenomenal on nearly every level and your point about budget is well taken - I just think they should have let the stock alone unless it was truly horrid. My $.02

Re: This Movie won AA for Cinematograpy?   
  by - bbmtwy (Tue Apr 11 2006 15:13:17 )   

   
I think just the script alone makes the film immortal. It is extremely polished. And it has spawned more memorable - and useful! - lines than any movie in recent memory! The "guitar waltz" music is the most memorable in recent film history. I like the way that BBM is made almost like a documentary. There is no dogma or voice-over or dramatic progression in the usual sense. The film just waches the guys talk and interact and push each others buttons. Little by little their personalities and stories (and secrets) are exposed and by the end of the film we cannot believe that they exist only in our imaginations. Dense, provocative stuff. The only film I've watched more times is Citizen Kane, and this may surpass it.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: This Movie won AA for Cinematograpy?   
  by - bbmtwy (Tue Apr 11 2006 15:15:45 )   

   
UPDATED Tue Apr 11 2006 15:17:59
I think just the script alone makes the film immortal. It is extremely polished. And it has spawned more memorable - and useful! - lines than any movie in recent memory! The "guitar waltz" music is the most memorable in recent film history. I like the way that BBM is made almost like a documentary. There is no dogma or voice-over or dramatic progression in the usual sense. The film just watches the guys talk and interact and push each other's buttons. Little by little their personalities and stories (and secrets) are exposed and by the end of the film we cannot believe that they exist only in our imaginations. Dense, provocative stuff. The only film I've watched more times is Citizen Kane, and this may surpass it.

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - nonon99_99 (Fri Apr 14 2006 05:29:07 )
   
   
I just watched Sense and Sensibility and noticed there is a scene similar to the finally lake scene in BBM in terms of the unique camera move. In the scene of SAS in which Marianne writes a letter to Willoughby knowning he has been married to a another woman, she is at the same time having a conversation with Elinor. When their opinions become entirely opposite, we see Elinor sitting on the bed behind Marianne, out of the focus of the camera. It is also interesting to notice that the character of Elinor has some similarity with Ennis, and Marianne with Jack.

I also think there is a shot used in the trailer of SAS similar to the truck entering/leaving the frame in BBM. That is Willoughby riding horse enterting and leaving the frame.

It is always surprising to see Ang Lee brooding his ideas for so many years in so many different films, what I have pick up here are only a tiny bit of them.

Re: Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - bbmtwy (Fri Apr 14 2006 07:15:08 )
   
   
I am ashamed to admit that I haven't seen ANY of Ang Lee's other films. I am extremely anxious to catch up!

"You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." --Ennis Del Mar

Re: Scenes on their fishing trips   
  by - taj_e (Fri Apr 14 2006 08:55:42 )   

   
I'm still trying to understand deeper the many fishing trips they had especially those moments where they rode on their horses

1. The camera focusing on the horses legs, stepping on soft grounds
2. The scene where they both riding horses through the river, Ennis was closely behind almost enjoying watching Jack's back

John explained on the first scene where the train repeatedly cutting Ennis. I hope there's also some explainations on the above

'I wish I know how to quit BBM...'

Re: Scenes on their fishing trips   
  by - naun (Fri Apr 14 2006 09:53:11 )   

   
The camera focusing on the horses legs, stepping on soft grounds

Here's a try. The horses are shown stepping on soft moss. Some of us have interpreted the horses in BBM as signifying the life force or state of nature. Curiously enough, images of moss growing on trees or rocks seem to carry rather similar significance in Lee's previous film, Hulk. So these shots may be a reference to the earlier film.

The scene where they both riding horses through the river, Ennis was closely behind almost enjoying watching Jack's back

I remember them as riding side by side, but if Jack is in front, this may be the "Walking Water Jesus" idea again. In another thread there was discussion of the story about Jesus walking on the water and urging his disciples to follow. Well, of course Jack sings a "Walking Water Jesus" song in the film, and is seen at one point crossing a river on foot and beckoning to Ennis to follow. I suppose it's just possible that the scene with the horses in the river echoes that earlier image.

Re: Scenes on their fishing trips   
  by - taj_e (Sat Apr 15 2006 01:42:43 )   


Thanks naun
1. ballet, delicate, tender kept coming into my head every time I thought of it
Didn't fancy Hulk lol. I followed it for a while and was a turn off when it became cartoonish

2. I like the explaination

'I wish I know how to quit BBM...'
[Post deleted]   
This message has been deleted by the poster

Re: Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - nonon99_99 (Fri Apr 14 2006 11:55:20 )   

   
Ang Lee's films are gems, among them, I rank Ride With The Devil and The Ice Storm with BBM together.

Re: Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - Penthesilea (Fri Apr 14 2006 15:28:00 )   

   
Great thread, guys!

bump to find later

Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved

Re: Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - naun (Fri Apr 14 2006 09:46:00 )
   

The tendency is also there in Sense and Sensibility to film Elinor against a background of doors and walls, and Marianne against open fields, just as we see with Ennis and Jack respectively in BBM.

It is also interesting to notice that the character of Elinor has some similarity with Ennis, and Marianne with Jack.

Yup, it's the sense and sensibility opposition again. Lee called Crouching Tiger "Sense and Sensibility with martial arts"; you could call BBM S&S with two guys and even more sheep.

Re: Silimar Camera move in Sense and Sensibility.   
  by - nonon99_99 (Fri Apr 14 2006 11:47:37 )   


UPDATED Fri Apr 14 2006 11:48:45
Yes, in Sense and Sensibility the sheeps are already there. People call the windy hill where Marianne recites poetry facing Willoughby's residence the 'Sense and Sensibility hill'. Brokeback Mountain can be called this also.


Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - zyna_kat (Wed Apr 19 2006 10:44:31 )   

Ignore this User | Report Abuse   
Great thread! (Bumping to put in my userprofile.)

Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera   
  by - deepaknair90 2 days ago (Sat May 6 2006 07:00:32 )
      
By all means- the Best thread on this message board. I really enjoyed reading almost all your insights on Lee's direction.
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline TrollHammer

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 25
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera -- by vikramas1109
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 06:40:27 am »
Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by dcij47a   (Sat Apr 8 2006 17:39:58)


Well.....he said it himself...... he gets very exhausted after every film he made. Guess that's the reason why: Getting every single frame in its place.


Jack: Tell you what. The truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.



Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by monimm18   (Tue Jun 6 2006 22:03:29)
UPDATED Tue Jun 6 2006 22:39:53


Fantastic thread.

I think that, what makes Ang Lee such an exceptional director are not only his, indeed, great filming or editing techniques, or his capacity of drawing out the best from his actors.
I believe Lee has great insight into the spectators' minds - he knows in which manner to address his viewers to achieve the desired effect, be it thought or emotion, without manipulating them. He sort of builds the path and nudges the viewers in its direction, then lets them find it themselves and follow it at their own pace.
In the December Newsweek interview, he said (paraphrasing) "When the film stops talking, the viewers take over with their thoughts". I think that statement defines Ang Lee's directing style: he always knows when to stop talking and leave room for the viewers to process and take the film where he wants it to be. Which, in a way, is a compliment to the viewers - he has enough confidence in their intellect to not do the thinking for them and bring the point home by beating them over their heads with messages.
Take, for example, the scene of Ennis discovering the shirts and his epiphany about the depth of Jack's love. There are no flshback scenes to the wrestling on Brokeback 20 years ago, to explain the provenance of the shirts, no dramatic mimic on Ennis' face to depict his train of thoughts - nothing is explained, no emotions are bluntly depicted; as Ennis discovers the shirts and figures out what they mean, so do we; as his anguish and regret for an unfulfilled love and life build, so do ours. The dramatism of that scene is not on the images on the screen, but in what those images evoke in our hearts and minds. Instead of watching a man crumbling under his sorrows and regrets we live that turmoil with him - for that moment we are Ennis.

In my opinion, many directors can surprise, provoque, shock or delight us with their work, but few have the creative clarity and artistic subtlety to produce a rich body of work that affects our perceptions and thinking, without being redundant, overbearing or blunt, but by eliciting complex, profound reactions that make a film simply unforgettable.


"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
Oscar Wilde




Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by iamlaron   (Thu Jan 25 2007 09:37:31)
   

Great thread,

bump for later.



Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by Jack_Doherty   (Tue Feb 27 2007 12:53:39)


I'm no proffessional cinematographer but I know it was beautiful in this film. I mean the shot in the car mirror was just beautiful, I'm thankful for this thread!!!!



Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by franklin68   (Tue Feb 27 2007 13:10:48)


Okay, so what exactly were the directorial flaws in BBM?



Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by vaporize   (Wed Feb 28 2007 22:37:44)
UPDATED Wed Feb 28 2007 22:38:33


Quote
and slightly edgier cutting could have worked wonders.

This may be so for a film like Sin City, but for a film showcasing the organic atmosphere of rural Wyoming? I don't think so. Brokeback Mountain does have a very slow pace, but it works for this particular film because we are meant to have an overall feel of the surroundings. Some shots are stagnant and allow us to take in vivid images. And once we start to see the slow-paced lives of the characters, we have a better understanding of their situations.

Quote
The second half is too fractured slowing down the narrative and the film lost a bit of its grip or 'sting' if you want.

It seems to me that having factured scenes would actually cause a narrative to have a quicker pace, which is the desired effect. The second half of the film has much more going on in terms of plot as the times fly much quicker. I think this change in pace causes us to feel that although times have changed, their relationship has remained stagnant for the most part.

The audience begins to see the fractured relationship take a toll on the characters. The last few scenes are fairly emotional, but are cut short so we never get to fully grieve the last time they met or when Jack dies or when Ennis comes to visit the Twist family. But when the credits start rolling, we are smacked across the face with an emotional bomb of utmost sorrow.

-------------
Let's go the the beach tonight
with a bottle of wine




Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by vaporize   (Thu Mar 1 2007 19:13:03)


Quote
No, because in the second half the development is hurt by the 'episodic style'

I disagree. As I said earlier, this "epidosidic style" litereally makes the times fly by. In such a short period in film length, the story covers several years. We feel this sense of urgency and towards the second half of the film, the primary focus is on Ennis. And in order for us to have a strong connection with his character, we see the events that unfold in a very quick pace showing only certain aspects as if we are reliving distant memories. After all, at the end of the film, we have just witnessed twenty years of this man's life, and it sure feels like we lived those years with Ennis during his most intimate moments.

I disagree about this film being too long. Almost every scene serves a purpose in either guiding the plot at varying pace or providing character development. Several people argue that we don't get to see much from the wives, but Brokeback Mountain is meant to be a very narrow depiction of two men's lives (one moreso than the other) and how how rural homophobia affects they way they think, feel, and act. We get a glimpse of the supporting characters, just enough to see how they affect the leading characters. Of course these secondary characters could have had more character development, but this would only be straying from the main purpose of the film in trying to understand the main characters.

I don't think Brokeback Mountain is a step down from 'Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.' They are both very subtle films with beautiful visuals, but they are so different. It just goes to show how versatile Ang Lee is as a director even if you include his work for 'Hulk.'

The reference to Sin City is my way of saying how preposterous it is to have an "edgier cutting" for this type of film. It wouldn't do justice to the pace and the atmosphere of this film at all.

-------------
Let's go the the beach tonight
with a bottle of wine




Re: BBM Analysis: Ang Lee's Camera
  by vaporize   (Sat Mar 3 2007 15:49:10)
UPDATED Sun Mar 4 2007 15:20:15


Quote
Sin City comparing to BBM is as comparing 'Days of Thunder' with 'Driving Miss Daisy' to make a point

My point was that Brokeback Mountain didn't have an edgier cutting--something that Sin City does have. Both films did wonders by employing different techniques.

Quote
a slighty tighter editing in the first half and a more coherent second half would have done wonders

I can't really respond much to this unless you give specific examples as I have, or at least go in more detail.

Quote
with the more down to earth material of BBM his style is a touch overbearing.

How so? The scenes were shot with such reservation. If anything, Lee's touch was restrained--nowhere near overbearing. In fact, I gave a specific example about how each emotional scene was cut short for a stronger lingering effect.

-------------
Let's go the the beach tonight
with a bottle of wine
TrollHammer
(formerly TrollHammer, OgreMaul, OgMallet, and BruteSmasher; and still GrendelSledge; at IMDb)

my LJ is BbMTrollHammer, my email is [email protected]