Stay Home.

[delalluvia]

I wasn't exactly talking about those people in particular.  I have relatives in Mexico.  I saw dirt dirt dirt poor people and I wondered - even as a kid - why the frick did they have so many chlldren?  Unfortunately that ties into Catholicism and the 'be fruitful and multiply' thing.

Actually that's not quite true. While Catholic church does encourage married couples to have children, in countries like Mexico, Ecuador and others, the great majorities of women who have children are single mothers. Some are raped, others had a boyfriend who got them pregnant and dumped them after finding out about it. Saddly safe sex is not an option for most of them. Most of these women have no access to anticonceptives and let alone to sexual education.

I can see that, however, we don't see many single Ecuadorian mothers trying to cross the border illegally.  They have quite a ways to go and the costs of paying just to get close to the U.S. is beyond their means, I'm sure.

I can't fault the rape victims of course, but those with boyfriends should know better and knew they were taking a chance.  Life gives no guarantees.  They may not have access to sex education, but they DO know where babies come from.  That's easy to see from watching their neighbors.  The young girls who get pregnant?  I'm sure they have parents or at least a caretaker who probably would have wanted them to stay 'pure' until they got married.  Somewhere in there a contraceptive choice - abstinence - was bypassed.

 

[sparkle_motion]

We are all the same, all human. I don't see why someone shouldn't be given a chance at a better life simply because they weren't born on this soil. I don't think there's any argument one can make that would have me believe otherwise. I don't care where you're from, if I have an opportunity for you that will possibly give you a better place in life, you can have it.

[delalluvia]

I certainly hope now that people recognize the need for low skilled worker to fill jobs that are not very appealing to normal US work force

Hiya Jenny,

I would be curious to see if it actually had any real impact.  The walkouts hit the segments of industries and businesses that lean heavily on undocumented workers.  For everyone else, it was just a blip.  Many people did not notice and would not have had they not watched the news.  I had known about the potential walkout, but forgot about it during my Monday workday and didn't even realize it had happened until I went home and watched the news, nothing in my day had been affected and I paid attention the rest of the week to see if perhaps there was some note taken by my friends or co-workers.

No one said anything.  Some even joked that 'Boy, traffic was way down, it was great.'  A caller in to a local radio station joked that "All the illegals stayed home today.  It was great to not have to see any illegals!'

Obviously in Texas, a conservative border state, attitudes are a bit harsher toward illegal immigration.

[delalluvia]

We are all the same, all human. I don't see why someone shouldn't be given a chance at a better life simply because they weren't born on this soil. I don't think there's any argument one can make that would have me believe otherwise. I don't care where you're from, if I have an opportunity for you that will possibly give you a better place in life, you can have it.

Hiya sparkle,

From what I've gotten from friends/co-workers etc, it isn't that people aren't human, it's just that real life isn't Disneyland.  Not everyone on the planet is going to 'make it' and there is no rule, no law, no nothing that says that everyone should.  It's just a really nice social construct that we imagine that they should.  It's unfair, sure.  But life is unfair.

I don't agree that everyone 'can have it', the reasons the laws are in place is because opportunities that abound are finite.  Every job an illegal takes, a legal immigrant or perhaps a citizen loses.

[rtprod]

This whole thread really bothers me perhaps because I refuse to acknowlege the term

illegal alien which is a derogatory slap to millions of honest and law-abiding residents. 

There is no such thing as an illegal human being, and this earth belongs to all of us, so the term undocumented worker is appropriate, and no, that's not just a left-leaning rationalization, it's the truth. 

Some of the comments on this thread are incredibly insensitive and making sweeping statements about Mexican immigrants, which make me very uncomfortable since I live amongst many of those "illegals" in a metropolitan city and see taxpaying, productive families whose children are bilingual, bright, and who want to get ahead in life like everyone else.

In case you're not aware of it, the average Mexican cannot, by immigration standards, legally emigrate to the United States.  Try being Mexican and getting a passport and/or visa to get on a plane from Mexico to the US and you'll see how it works.  You're forced to prove ties to Mexico, financial (which most don't have) or career (fewer still), and it's not do-able.

To those who say that their grandparents came here legally, well congratulations to them -- the immigration laws that exist now make that next to impossible for the majority of those on Earth.  At that time, they were welcomed. 

People, come on.  Equating immigrants with crime is just ridiculous.  If you put a human face on these people--the majority of whom are just like you and me--it's not so easy to dismiss them. 

This whole discussion has left a bad taste in my mouth, and perhaps I need to read the comments more closely but I stopped reading about halfway down the thread. 

rt

[rtprod]

I have to say that if you look around the world, US actually has one of the most open immigration policy than most of the counties.

I'd like to see some documentation on this as well, since we live in a land of opportunity that US immigration consistently withholds from foreign nationals.  I have gone through the immigration process myself step by step (though not for myself), and I'm not ashamed to say that I helped a pair of gay friends engage in a green card marriage (successfully, I might add though it took a lot of money, headaches, nerves and waiting) because the ridiculous state of things in this country with regard to legalizing long-term residents who are out of status left them no options and I saw them crying for years, exploited by jobs, long hours, paying social security they would never reap and the rest.  You have no idea how painful it is to see a friend cry over a parent's funeral in another country that they simply cannot attend for fear of never getting back into this wonderful place.  For every blocked driveway, they are paying a hefty price of their own. 

Let's stop fooling ourselves how progressive everything is here -- looked at the current administration lately?  Gay marriage is legal in Belgium, Canada and other places, guys.  Sorry to jump to another issue but I have a gay friend who is an undocumented Mexican immigrant here in the US, who is learning Dutch and moving to Belgium right now.  Why? 

Because they will take him.  As he is. 

Sad state of things, I have to say. 

[rtprod]

Also, if anyone would like further information about just how terrifying and crime-ridden the trip to the US from south of the border can be, please just ask me and I'll write more about safe houses, deaths, drownings, stolen money, rapes, etc.  For those who would prefer to think that people just "swim" their way here for the hell of it to take advantage of American programs and institutions, you've got your head in the sand.

Those who come want it so badly their lives hang in the balance, and that's the kind of spirit that founded this country, in case anyone has forgotten. 

Read this book and you'll get it:

http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060789441

rt

[sparkle_motion]

Read this book and you'll get it:

http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0060789441

rt

I remember when that happened here in Texas. A lot of people expressed the sentiment "Well, they deserved it, they shouldn't have been breaking the law".
Utterly despicable.

[rtprod]

I remember when that happened here in Texas. A lot of people expressed the sentiment "Well, they deserved it, they shouldn't have been breaking the law".

Well, that's typical of the way we tend to see most global plights beyond our comforts and privileges.

Dunno why many can't question whether some laws that may be constitutional might also be antiquated and not humane. 

rt

[rtprod]

From what I've gotten from friends/co-workers etc, it isn't that people aren't human, it's just that real life isn't Disneyland.  Not everyone on the planet is going to 'make it' and there is no rule, no law, no nothing that says that everyone should.  It's just a really nice social construct that we imagine that they should.  It's unfair, sure.  But life is unfair.

I don't agree that everyone 'can have it', the reasons the laws are in place is because opportunities that abound are finite.  Every job an illegal takes, a legal immigrant or perhaps a citizen loses.

Del,

I love you dearly, you know that much.  But that just smacks of idealism and not reality.  Compared to these people, our lives are Disneyland.  Period.  I don't understand why it's so hard to admit that while immigration advocates like me are not advocating open borders by any means, we are attempting to adjust what is largely, on both sides of the house, considered an inequity and unfair bitch of an unsatisfactory situation for 12 million people. 

Why can't everyone "have it?"  The message last Monday was clear.  If you removed the "illegals" as you call them from society, particularly cities, you would see a complete debilitation in the efficiency of your own life -- your clothes would not get cleaned, your bus would not arrive, your dishes would not be washed, your hotel room not straightened, your food would go unprepared, your vegetables unharvested, your taxis would not be driven, your gardening not done, your home not cleaned, your cable TV not installed, your.... should I keep going? 

This is a very large social issue that cannot be addressed with ideals like what "should" be -- we need to address what simply IS.  Undocumented workers can get TIN numbers, they can get driver's licenses in some places and they can even buy homes.  And they are doing all of these things, and planning for the future.  It's naive for anyone to deny these privileges they have rightfully earned just because some silly law on the books doesn't measure up to the situation in this country today.  The law needs to be changed, period. 

And when that law changes, and they are suddently not looked at as second class citizens anymore but rather, equal citizens, then what?  Will American society crumble?  No, it will get stronger and more diverse.  And THAT is the real issue for many today that they would prefer not to admit -- the diversification of our culture makes many very, very uncomfortable. 

rt