Is zero a number?

[dot-matrix]

Yes David zero is a number.  It is a placeholder who's value is determined by the place it holds, you cannot have numbers over 9 without a placeholder to indicate the addtion of every tenth, hundreth or thousandth mark.  Without zero there would be no 10, no 20, no 50, no 100, no 1000, no 1,000,000.  Without zero there would be no complex calculations that gave us modern wonders like the personal computer, solar energy or space travel....hence not only is zero a number it is a VERY important number  

[David In Indy]

Yes David zero is a number.  It is a placeholder who's value is determined by the place it holds, you cannot have numbers over 9 without a placeholder to indicate the addtion of every tenth, hundreth or thousandth mark.  Without zero there would be no 10, no 20, no 50, no 100, no 1000, no 1,000,000.  Without zero there would be no complex calculations that gave us modern wonders like the personal computer, solar energy or space travel....hence not only is zero a number it is a VERY important number   

Okay! Thanks Dottie! 

But (and PLEASE nobody bite my head off for asking this) a placeholder is not the same as a number, is it? 

[dot-matrix]

Okay! Thanks Dottie! 

But (and PLEASE nobody bite my head off for asking this) a placeholder is not the same as a number, is it? 

I would NEVER bite your head off David !  Zero has to be a number to have an assigned value, otherwise it would be an unknown like a or c are in  algebraic equations.  Therefore it is null until it assumes its "place"...make sense  ... only when it stands totally alone does zero have no value and then it use ONLY to indicate that.

[dot-matrix]

I use to love these School House Rock things when I was a kid!



My Hero, Zero
Music & Lyrics:    Bob Dorough  

Zero?
Yeah, Zero is a wonderful thing.
In fact, Zero is my hero!

How can Zero be a hero?

Well, there are all kinds of heroes, you know.
A man can get to be a hero
For a famous battle he fought...
Or by studying very hard
And becoming a weightless astronaut.

And then there are heroes of other sorts,
Like the heroes we know from watching sports.
But a hero doesn't have to be a grown up person, you know,
A hero can be a very big dog
Who comes to your rescue,
Or a very little boy who's smart enough to know what to do.

But let me tell you about my favorite hero.

My hero, Zero, such a funny little hero,
But till you came along,
We counted on our fingers and toes.
Now you're here to stay
And nobody really knows
How wonderful you are.
Why we could never reach a star,
Without you, Zero, my hero,
How wonderful you are.

What's so wonderful about a zero?
It's nothing, isn't it?

Sure, it represents nothing alone.

But place a zero after 1
And you've got yourself a 10.
See how important that is?
When you run out of digits,
You can start all over again.
See how convenient that is?

That's why with only ten digits including zero,
You can count as high as you could ever go...
Forever, towards infinity,
No one ever gets there, but you could try.

With 10 billion zeros,
From the cavemen till the heroes,
Who invented you,
They counted on their fingers and toes
And maybe some sticks and stones, or rocks and bones
And their neighbors' toes.
You're here,
And nobody really knows
How wonderful you are.
Why we could never reach the star,
Without you, Zero, my hero,
Zero, how wonderful you are.

Place one zero after any number
And you've multiplied that number by 10.
See how easy that is.
Place two zeros after any number
And you've multiplied that number by 100.
See how simple that is.
Place three zeros after any number,
And you've multiplied that number by 1,000.

Et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad astra, forever and ever,
With zero, my hero, how wonderful you are.

[injest]

zero is a number.

I remember reading about ancient history and they were talking about how people didnt really start commerce until they were able to grasp the concept of nothing.

that doesn't sound right I know. But you can't say there is one pencil if you don't know that there is the concept that there were zero pencils before.

ARGH...I am not explaining right.

lets say you are a restaurant owner. and you are buying bread. You have to know you had zero before you can add to it. you have to have the concept of nothing.

[David In Indy]

I would NEVER bite your head off David !  Zero has to be a number to have an assigned value, otherwise it would be an unknown like a or c are in  algebraic equations.  Therefore it is null until it assumes its "place"...make sense  ... only when it stands totally alone does zero have no value and then it use ONLY to indicate that.

Okay. I think I understand now Dottie.

Zero is NOT a number if it is alone (only zero) but with another number (such as a one) it IS a number. That makes sense. 

[David In Indy]

zero is a number.

I remember reading about ancient history and they were talking about how people didnt really start commerce until they were able to grasp the concept of nothing.

that doesn't sound right I know. But you can't say there is one pencil if you don't know that there is the concept that there were zero pencils before.

ARGH...I am not explaining right.

lets say you are a restaurant owner. and you are buying bread. You have to know you had zero before you can add to it. you have to have the concept of nothing.

Okay Jess! Don't come in here and confuse me again! 

Yes. Zero on its own is a CONCEPT. Not a number. If you have ZERO loaves of bread, you have NO loaves of bread. You have nothing. But if you have 9 loves of bread and purchase another loaf, now you have 10 loaves of bread. Zero in this case (10) IS a number, sort of. But nothing is nothing and it cannot be a number. So zero on its own is not a number, but in the case of 10 (or even 100, 1000, 10000... even 1095600) THOSE zeros are numbers.

Am I correct in saying this? I think I am! 

[injest]

all numbers are just concepts.

all words are just concepts. in and of themselves they don't mean anything.

what is 1 for example?

[David In Indy]

all numbers are just concepts.

all words are just concepts. in and of themselves they don't mean anything.

what is 1 for example?

But we can see numbers. If I have two apples in front of me, I can SEE two apples. There they are... one... two..

If I have ONE apple in front of me I can see ONE apple.

If I have ZERO apples in front of me, I see NOTHING because NOTHING is there! See? 

[moremojo]

If I have ZERO apples in front of me, I see NOTHING because NOTHING is there! See? 

Yes, but the concept of no apples is what is pertinent here. Zero apples is as viable a quantity (at least in mathematical terms) as one or more apples.

Like I said, I'm lousy in math, but one of the aspects of mathematics is its delving into the realm of abstraction. Mathematical concepts don't always have to have (or perhaps even can have, sometimes) exact analogies in the workaday world of our everyday lives.