Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?

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Artiste:
Thanks underdown!

Why not the hugs!??

It is not kissing a gay man or a gay women!!

You surprise me. Please explain!

Hugs!

Artiste:
Thanks moremojo! And thanks to all too!!

You say: Alma might see Jack as the one steering Ennis onto a "deviant" path, but that he himself is not intrinsically "deviant".

.....................

Gay lives were seen then as indeed deviant, and still is so viewed as that by many, even in our civilized countries;
let us all (gays and straights and other freedom loving persons) remember that they even imprisoned that famous English writer in England; plus to-day some presidents of even europen countries call gays deviants (one or two in the news did this year); and, we must never forget that muslims and other so-called religious countries murder gays to-day in line ups (even inChina I think?)!!

Yes, I think that many, if not the majority or near that, of the population of our civilized countries (USA, Canada, Engalnd, France...) do think that gay men and gay women are deviant!! ??

I note that yesterday, a prominant local lawyer, who was charged for allegedly having sex with a young man and so he fought that for nearly five years with millions of $ and  with the world famous lawyer that Sir Black had in the USA lately!!  But he had been charged with over 40 counts! And he won his case yesterday, since the young man now 43 changed his testimony during the court! But mother calls that, is finding the lawyer outrages (word like you use deviant, I find! And even to-day this noon, she cries that out again!!) I do not know if that lawyer is a gay man, but he says on TV news that he has lost respect for the crown's office and how they do bussiness, plus that too about the police!! It seems obvious to me that much of the population, including some in the courts and the police are anti-gay. Is that so you way, anyone your way?

It seems obvious too to me, that even if Alma Sr. considers Jack deviant, that she is not only seeing Jack as the devil (for lack of a better word) but also crasy in every way in rendering her former husband also as crasy or deviant, since he separated from her and since he will not re-marry either her or another woman??


Hugs!

LauraGigs:

--- Quote from: Moremojo ---The concern over remarriage could suggest a perception on Alma's part that Ennis might be straight, were it not for the fishing trips with "Jack Nasty"--the implication here could be that Alma might see Jack as the one steering Ennis onto a "deviant" path, but that he himself is not intrinsically "deviant".
--- End quote ---

I've always had a problem with the idea that Alma was "goading" or "baiting" Ennis into a fight with that remark. Her tone here is concerned (only turning into rage with the "once burned" reply). This puts their conversation in a whole new light. And it's completely consistent with the ignorance of the time concerning homosexuality (even these days -- remember the Gene Shalit review saying Jack was a "sexual predator"?)

Anyway, it's fascinating! I think you're totally on to something here.

brokeplex:

--- Quote from: underdown on December 12, 2007, 11:03:49 pm ---Please excuse this being off topic.

In this country (Australia) the majority of crimes of physical attack against another person seem to be those committed by men against their wives or defacto partners (with alcohol as a major factor).
Most of this is not reported to police, but is well known by community services authorities, doctors, friends and (thus) media. There are also increasing numbers of cases reported of the abuse of children, quite often committed by a defacto male against his partner's child, but sometimes by both parents.
I think that community attitudes are changing with better communication, as people become less ignorant of gay matters, and more informed about male/female abuse. Ignorance of gay matters led to unfounded fear, or homophobia. Now there is a fear of straight men, generated by the reported actions of the abusive. I don't think any 19 year old would consider gay men at high risk here and now, compared to women in a bad marriage or defacto relationship. Years ago, they might have.

Rob

--- End quote ---

I think that you have raised an important issue here. I can't comment on Australia other than to say I would love to visit the country. But I will comment on the increasingly popular trend in the US to characterize all men as aggressors and therefore dangerous.It appears to me that the wrongful actions of a few have lead to perceptions that are unfair and in the long run dangerous.

serious crayons:

--- Quote from: brokeplex on December 13, 2007, 01:51:17 pm ---I think that you have raised an important issue here. I can't comment on Australia other than to say I would love to visit the country. But I will comment on the increasingly popular trend in the US to characterize all men as aggressors and therefore dangerous.It appears to me that the wrongful actions of a few have lead to perceptions that are unfair and in the long run dangerous.

--- End quote ---

Underdown, brokeplex and others interested in this subject, may I suggest starting a new thread about it elsewhere? It's not connected to Alma Jr. and Ennis at all (as you've politely noted, Rob), and in fact it's not even connected to the mission of the Open Forum, which is to discuss the movie and story.

I'm sure the subject could generate lots of interesting conversation, including from people who aren't following this thread and therefore don't know it's going on. This topic might fit better in Anything Goes. If you do decide to start a new thread elsewhere, feel free to post a note about it here so those following this thread will know where to find it.

Artiste, I'd like to suggest that you do the same with your comments concerning the recent crimes and court cases that you've found disturbing. That sounds like a good topic for a conversation on the Current Events forum, or perhaps on your blog.

At BetterMost, we like to be easygoing about posts that occasionally stray off topic, but some of the conversations on this board of late are so distant from the topic, and have become so in-depth and prolific, that they are doing a disservice both to the "Alma Jr./Ennis" topic as well as to the conversations themselves, which might attract interest from lots of BetterMost members who won't know to look for them here.

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