Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?
pnwDUDE:
Before I start, I want everyone to know it is not my goal to be antagonistic. My experiences and perspectives are unique to most here and often collide with perceptions folks have of people like me (cops) and cop culture. I admit I have trouble ‘biting my tongue’ when reading generalities which cast me and my profession in a negative light. Perhaps it is easier to roll my eyes and go away, but at the end of the day, I feel compelled to defend me, my profession, and the wonderful people I work with. Yeah, as someone pointed out, there are bad apples everywhere. Luckily, where I work, most get weeded out and sent on their way. I also work for a major police agency on the west coast. Certainly we are more liberal then other parts of the country, but I also have the opportunity to interact with law enforcement professionals in other departments, so I’m not just talking about how ‘things’ are here on the left coast. And trust me, I know everyone has stories. I put weight in what one shares from first-hand experience, yet I am very weary when I hear stories of encounters/things that happened to friends or others.
Without going into details about me (my story is in Beyond Brokeback or if anyone is interested, I can PM it), I live in a very rural part of the pacific northwest. I am a police officer in a large, urban department (I’m commutin’ 3 hours a day…) I’ve been there for 24 years. For the first few years on the job, I was married. I have been living happily, and out, with the same man for the past 19 years.
Plainclothes missions are targeted at specific locations based on citizen complaints. The are almost always based on narcotics, transient problem, and public sexual conduct (vice & prostitution). Like most cities, there are several parks that attract gay men. We know those parks, but unless we have complaints, we don’t seek those locations to do sting or ‘entrapment’ missions. A few years ago, one of the parks got so bad (blatant sex acts on hiking trails, public restrooms, picnic areas) the park wasn’t usable and citizens were outraged. Yes, the problems were gay men, but they were problems and, regardless of rather one thinks public sex should be legal, it’s not. A very liberal city hall wanted something done. Most of our missions were uniformed—bicycles and such, but when city hall and the public wants statistics, they get arrests. It solved the problem. Same goes for street drug dealing. It got so bad in China Town, we had to do something. Cops dressed up like dope buyers, and made arrests. Most of those selling drugs were black. Street prostitution (people finding filled condoms in the gutters in front of their houses cause’ tricks are done in cars)? Same thing. What I’m saying is that gays weren’t being targeted for arrest cause’ they were gay. African Americans weren’t being targeted cause’ they were black. That, friends, is how it works. No conspiracies. No hate towards anyone cause of their lifestyle or race. Yeah, people will argue with me, but I won’t waiver, because it is what it is.
Most police agencies are very transparent. We are scrutinized from every angle. The media. Police review boards. Attorneys. There are groups within our ranks, one of which is the Gay and Lesbian Police Officers association. We have civilian over site to our Internal Affairs Division—the Independent Police Review. Any one of you could walk into a precinct and ask to go on a ride along with an officer, and would be welcome. Most female officers are lesbian, and there are a handful of male officers which are gay. After several years, it was clear I had nothing to hide or be ashamed of because I was homosexual. Everyone knows about me, and there isn’t a hint of hate or bad treatment. In fact, like I said in a prior post, I’ve never seen disparate treatment toward gays. If it existed, anywhere, the media and attorneys would be having a field day. A code of silence? No.
The discussion of Jack being murdered or killed accidentally spawned these passionate responses and discussions. A lot of times the focus is turned on the police and what is thought to be cover up or the ignorance of the truth. Has this happened? Can’t say no because it probably has, especially in the post war, very racially charged 50’s & 60’s. I can say, first hand, I’ve seen nothing like that in my 24 years. Yeah, cops go afoul, but it’s the act of an individual, and not institutional. Cops get indicted for everything from child pornography to homicide, but so do doctors and attorneys and plumbers and waiters.
The other aspect I’m passionate about, that resulted from my experience with Brokeback Mountain, is what example the gay community sets for not only young men just coming to terms with their sexuality but for those we are trying to convince to vote (politicians & rank-in-file straight folk) for equal rights for us and the right to serve our country. Times are changing. The ills of the gay ghetto are closing up shop, and more and more gays feel they can move to a place like Signal, WY and live a happy life, free of beatings. OUT magazine has many articles about this, and the Boston Globe (I think) had a long article about how gays are mainstreaming to rural America from the inner cities. Two men (or women) can and do walk down the street hand in hand in the city I work without the least bit of fear. Don’t know about you folks, but I feel pretty damn good about it.
I know people around here have had a tough life. Especially those over 40. I have no use for people that make fun of other people because of who they are. As for people who physically hurt other people because of their race or sexual orientation, there is one place for them. An 8x10 room, and a hot fuckin’ afterlife. I know I, and my fellow comrades in blue, will oblige them with at least the lodging.
Thanks for letting me say my part. We are all in this together to a common end.
Brad
Sandy:
Brad
Thank you for your post. I agree with pretty much all of your comments and if I may I would like to respond (noting however that this may be considered to be OT).
--- Quote from: bradINblue on January 15, 2008, 12:38:58 am ---
Plainclothes missions are targeted at specific locations based on citizen complaints.
--- End quote ---
Some of our members believe that gay people are targeted for certain actions, and you have kindly advised us of similar actions taken by the police in response to complaints made by the public about the actions of certain individuals rather than a community as a whole.
--- Quote from: bradINblue on January 15, 2008, 12:38:58 am ---Most police agencies are very transparent.
--- End quote ---
Positive discrimination is a major problem where I live, particularly so with the Islamic, sikh and gay community. Major organisations (both private and public sector) are terrified of being accused of discrimination and accordingly (on some occasions) people belonging to these communities are offered more of a chance to flourish than other citizens. I refer specifically to the employment of people belonging to a minority group in order to fulfil a quota. Having worked in the public sector in the past, I am speaking from first hand experience. We offered interviews to pretty much all applicants who were obviously part of a minority community even when they were not perhaps the most qualified.
I cannot see any reason why another citizen should receive preferential treatment because of their gender/sexuality etc. This BREEDS contempt and intolerance. The checks are in place (two stage C.V. review process, interviews conducted by a panel of staff etc). If there is any hint of discrimination, then of course, this should be dealt with.
I have epilepsy and am banned from driving by the DVLA. This prohibited my application to a couple of firms, and I understood the reasons why this was so (without going into detail). I do not believe that I am being discriminated against, I understand the reasons why.
I would however like to point out that positive discrimination is an insult. For a company or organisation to offer preferential treatment to a member of a minority community on the basis of faith etc is demeaning to the application. They should feel confident that they have been offered promotion etc on the basis of their ability and to suggest otherwise is surely of embarrassment to them.
--- Quote from: bradINblue on January 15, 2008, 12:38:58 am ---I have no use for people that make fun of other people because of who they are. As for people who physically hurt other people because of their race or sexual orientation, there is one place for them. An 8x10 room, and a hot fuckin’ afterlife.
--- End quote ---
Although I have been discussing job opportunities, I simply wanted to show how discrimination takes many forms, and I do not want anyone to think, even for a second, that my post in any way downplays the fact that discrimination exists. I live in a diverse community and there have been many incidents involving gangs of white youths beating up people of colour. I think that it is appalling and I have faith in my police force that these incidents are afforded the same time and dedication as any other assault.
Clyde-B:
There still exists, and I have personally seen it, a certain discrimination against effeminate males in the gay community simply because they are effeminate. This happens both from within the gay community and from without.
I'd like to point out to the more macho members here that our effeminate brethren may be the bravest of our lot. Simply because they are able to endure and survive more crap from the world at large than the rest of us and they still remain true to themselves.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: garycottle on January 14, 2008, 10:19:46 pm ---I hear what you're saying, ineedcrayons, and I agree for the most part. But we all know that there are women out there that are not so discriminating. And they catch a lot of crap for being who they are, from both men and women. I find it especially ludicrous when a striaght man takes advantage of a woman like that, and then blames her for it after.
--- End quote ---
I find it ludicrous when women like that catch crap, too. It's a milder equivalent of cultures that punish women for getting raped (including our own, until relatively recently). However, for a woman having sex with a total stranger is a bad idea, in most cases, unless you're a prostitute. I don't mean someone you met at the bar and spent the evening with and hit it off and wound up going home together. That happens a lot, obviously, and isn't that big a deal these days. I mean someone you literally just met. It's dangerous, and IMO rarely happens unless the woman is very drunk or otherwise impaired (note, Gary, that you phrased it "when a straight man takes advantage of a woman like that" -- that's just the problem). And it's rare to the point of almost nonexistent to have a woman sitting on a park bench minding her own business, a man coming up and saying, "Wanna have sex?" and her saying "Sure" and off into the bushes they go. Because, frankly, most women aren't THAT desperate for sex. They're a bit more discriminating, and need to know their partner as a person before they do it. Straight men, knowing that, aren't generally that bold unless they're rapists. So any straight man who considers instant sex a viable option with a straight woman is suspect, IMO.
--- Quote ---It seems to me that straight women tend to go for bigger, beefer men. And I certainly wouldn't want to go into the bushes with a man like that right after I met him.
--- End quote ---
I think straight women's tastes probably range about as much as gay men's do.
brokeplex:
--- Quote from: bradINblue on January 15, 2008, 12:38:58 am ---.
Without going into details about me (my story is in Beyond Brokeback or if anyone is interested, I can PM it), I live in a very rural part of the pacific northwest. I am a police officer in a large, urban department (I’m commutin’ 3 hours a day…) I’ve been there for 24 years. For the first few years on the job, I was married. I have been living happily, and out, with the same man for the past 19 years.
Thanks for letting me say my part. We are all in this together to a common end.
Brad
--- End quote ---
Brad, I read your story a few months ago in "Beyond Brokeback" and was moved. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Bill
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