Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum

TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?

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brokeplex:

--- Quote from: atz75 on February 18, 2008, 05:21:12 pm ---Yes, I agree that there's already something notable about Jack's reply to the "normal" question from the very beginning of the conversation. 

The whole question of how Jack and Ennis communicate (or fail to communicate) is pretty interesting.

When their relationship is still at the friend/budding-romance stage... their communication is pretty good.  Actually, the scene where Jack listens to Ennis say more than "he's spoke in a year" seems to show that Ennis is already super comfortable with Jack and is in the process of making him a confidant.  Jack's ability to make Ennis laugh (when Jack understands that it's important to provide a little humor and lightheartedness to Ennis's rough situation) is also an instance of great, and very happy communication.

I think it might even be reasonable to say that from the beginning, Ennis's sense that he can talk to Jack pretty freely (by Ennis's standards at least) is one of the big attractions that Ennis feels towards Jack.

And, from there things get way more complex... and the complexity seems to really be signaled with the "I'm not queer" discussion between TS1 and TS2.


I wonder if this "maybe Texas" conversation is the second side of the palindrome (or ink-blot) for the "I'm not queer" scene,  in terms of BBM's filmic structure.


--- End quote ---

I like that point!

Brown Eyes:

--- Quote from: brokeplex on February 18, 2008, 05:37:29 pm ---I like that point!

--- End quote ---

Well, thanks for reviving the whole ink-blot/ palindrome concept recently Bud.  8)

I think it's a really important and interesting concept to recognize when thinking about BBM.

Katie77:
Great thread, and great posts.......

I have just been thinking of the sheer frustrations Ennis must have bee feeling since Alma had confronted him after the Thanksgiving dinner. I dont know how long it was between that and the scene by the river, but it would have been bottled up inside Ennis all that time, no one to talk to about it, just time to go over and over it in his own mind, so the chance finally to spill it out into words with Jack, to hopefully get some comfort or logic from Jack about it all, and then wham, Jack starts on about his own agenda of Ennis moving to Texas to be closer to him......That wasn't what Ennis had been waiting for all this time, he wanted to focus the discussion on what he had been bottling up all that time, and in some ways, Jack turned the conversation around and that just made Ennis explode....in fact, what Jack was suggesting was more or less gonna bring what the two of them had, more out into the open....so here was Ennis still trying to hide it, and worried about what people might notice and Jack's solution, was come down to Texas and dont let it bother you who knows....

I think Ennis thought, he was the only one carrying all this frustration about their relationship, Jack seemed comfortable in his marriage, financially, and also with his own sexuality, and yet truthfully, he was as tormented and unhappy as Ennis was....Jack's solution seemed easy, just set up house together and everything would be OK, Ennis couldn't imagine that it could be that easy and found 100 reasons why it couldn't be.

BBM-Cat:

--- Quote from: Lynne on February 18, 2008, 05:09:07 pm ---
I have the sense here with Jack's hesitation, then silent nod, that things are NOT normal between him and Lureen and that Lureen does suspect.  It reminds me a bit of the 'I'm not queer' scene where Jack says 'Me neither' and averts his gaze. 
--- End quote ---

I definitely agree with you there Lynne, this is one scene that always bothers me and seems like such a tragedy. A tragedy because Jack really misses the opportunity to communicate with, and reassure Ennis by 'normalizing' his thoughts, feelings, and experiences (as a queer man). Instead of reassuring Ennis that he too sometimes wonders if people 'know' about him, Jack nods that everything is 'normal' between him and Lureen, and he offers no support for Ennis' feelings that other people 'know' or 'suspect' him being queer.  By Jack nodding in agreement that things are 'normal', it only serves to escalate Ennis' anxiety, confirming in Ennis' own mind that something indeed must be terribly wrong with him if he cannot maintain 'normal' sexual relations with Alma, and that he has these feelings or beliefs that other people 'know' about him. I think that by the end of that "conversation", when Jack makes his seemingly innocuous remark about 'getting out of there' and moving to 'maybe Texas', Ennis already felt defensive, alienated in his experience, and lashed out with sarcasm.

It's a scene I truly wish had played out differently.

optom3:

--- Quote from: atz75 on February 18, 2008, 04:15:49 pm ---Well, yes, Alma explains that she figured things out about the fishing trips, the note, etc. 

But, also Ennis is now worried about "people on the pavement" looking at him "suspicious" like "they know."  I do think Ennis is worried that folks are somehow able to figure him out by the way he looks (or something like that).

I definitely think you're right that Jack simply lives without at much fear as Ennis, even when it comes to the issue of sexuality.




--- End quote ---

I agree, however there is a revealing sentence in the story that I think indicates Ennis has been giving some thought,albeit abstract to how the 2 of them could be together.In the motel scene Ennis says "I goddamn hate it that your'e going to drive away in the mornin and I"m goin back to work.-----"shit I have been lookin at people on the street.This happen a other people? What the hell do they do?"Is he looking to Jack as the more experienced to provide him with the answer?

It seems that Ennis must have some inkling,no matter how primitive or buried within his psyche that others have experienced what he and Jack have.He must have come at least partly to terms with his own feelings,otherwise why does he ponder what other people do. Interesting too is the fact that he has been thinking of this in the 4 years before he meets up with Jack again.
Equally revealing is jack"s reply ,'I don't know what they do,maybe go to Denver.'and I don't give a flying fuck"So if Ennis was hoping for some solution from Jack he is gravely disappointed,Equally puzzling to me is why jack mentions to ennis that he thinks they may have been seen that summer.Hardly the way to quash any fears inherent in the deep recesses of the mind of Ennis.
I think for Jack the place is irrelevant,he just has a pipe dream of some utopia where they can be together,period. Ennis has obviously given some thought as to how others manage it.A point which seemessd at odds with his normal laconic self.Maybe the same can be applied to him as his daughter,he does not say much ,but what he does sure is telling.
I think one of the most poignant sentences in the book is when Ennis reveals to Jack that after they come down from the mountain and he was sick,"took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn,t a let you out a my sights.Too late then by a long,long while"So he had been searching for answers for a year!!

My interpretation then is that Ennis gave up when he realised why he had been sick,and yet could not silence the nagging doubts as to if it happened to others ,what did they do about it,Jack of course is flippant in his "go to Denver" What puzzles me is when Ennis is for once being painfully honest and revealing his innermost thoughts,why does Jack not jump at the opportunity.Is it that he is still processing what Ennis said about it being too late by a long long time?

Well those are my thoughts and feel free to disagree,I think Texas is maybe as throwaway as Denver.Fundamentally I feel they both realise the ship has long since sailed.Having realised that ,all the frustrations of the years erupt.

Sorry if I have digressed a little,I just thought the motel scene in the book maybe casts some light on the film scene.

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