Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: Sandy on February 19, 2008, 11:40:21 am ---Yep, we differ here. At the post divorce scene, he says he had the girls this weekend which he did. The most telling line for me was when he said that he didn’t know what to say. He couldn't think of anything to say to heal Jack's hurt therefore he didn't say anything. When he did apologise, he said to Jack "]I'm sorry]..you know I am". Those brief words told Jack everything. Of course it was horrible for Jack to hear, but it was honest.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but having the girls is partly a convenient excuse. I'm not saying he should have gotten rid of them and shirked his parental duties. But he could have told Jack to wait around, or whispered that indeed his divorce DID mean their relationship could move to a new level, or invited him back the following weekend, whatever. Instead, he kept nervously glancing at the passing white pickup. He's sorry to Jack not because he has other plans that weekend, but because he can't be what Jack wants him to be.
--- Quote from: souxi on February 19, 2008, 12:10:50 pm ---I just read the link. Blimey you guys sure see a lot in the humble old bucket. I shall have to pay more attention to buckets in future obviously. ;D
--- End quote ---
Souxi, when I first saw the subject line of that thread almost two years ago, I just rolled my eyes and thought, yeah, right, buckets -- aren't we getting a little carried away? I didn't even read the thread! But finally I did and was immediately convinced. The presence and meaning of buckets and coffee pots are not accidental.
Needless to say that my reaction to that thread was before I knew Front-Ranger very well, so I wasn't aware of her incredible acuity at detecting symbolism.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: Sandy on February 19, 2008, 07:27:08 am ---I think that he is beginning to attempt to start trying (phew!) to define his relationship with Jack.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I agree very much with what you are saying. To me, Ennis clearly has an intention in this conversation. He wants to talk about them/their relationship/his fears. He asks three times. First he asks whether everything between Jack and Lureen is normal. Not: if everything is all right, going well, they're happy together or whatever. No, he asks whether it's normal. Why should it not be normal? Because Jack is gay.
After Jack reacts only casually (and lying, I agree with this opinion, and I also agree he lies with good intentions, to not upset Ennis), Ennis asks a second time, he digs deeper "She never suspects?" Again: what could she suspect? Well, the same thing Alma found out.
Again, Jack just shrugs it off. Ennis then really lets his hair down in his third attempt, the question about people on the pavement knowing .
I think this scene was a rare moment of truthfulness and openness for Ennis, he's practically saying they're gay. I think the "not queer" denial is past him at this point. He has figured it out. He turns to the only human being in the world he can approach with his thoughts and fears. He's looking for reassurance and guidance from Jack - but Jack has his own (understandable) agenda and fails to react appropriately. Missed chance, again.
Sandy:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on February 19, 2008, 12:43:21 pm ---He asks three times.
--- End quote ---
I wonder how Ennis would have reacted if Jack had said, "No, it's not normal-normal is with you", "yes, she suspects there's someone else" and "no, I don't think anyone who sees me automatically knows".
Would Ennis have moved to Texas?
souxi:
--- Quote from: ineedcrayons on February 19, 2008, 12:37:27 pm ---Yeah, but having the girls is partly a convenient excuse. I'm not saying he should have gotten rid of them and shirked his parental duties. But he could have told Jack to wait around, or whispered that indeed his divorce DID mean their relationship could move to a new level, or invited him back the following weekend, whatever. Instead, he kept nervously glancing at the passing white pickup. He's sorry to Jack not because he has other plans that weekend, but because he can't be what Jack wants him to be.
Souxi, when I first saw the subject line of that thread almost two years ago, I just rolled my eyes and thought, yeah, right, buckets -- aren't we getting a little carried away? I didn't even read the thread! But finally I did and was immediately convinced. The presence and meaning of buckets and coffee pots are not accidental.
Needless to say that my reaction to that thread was before I knew Front-Ranger very well, so I wasn't aware of her incredible acuity at detecting symbolism.
--- End quote ---
Well we,ll just have to agree to differ here, because even though I have read the link, I,m afraid my eyes DID roll, and I thought, well it doesn,t matter what I thought lol, but suffice to say, the only thing symbolic to me about Ennis dropping the bucket into the water is that he had a clumsy moment and dropped the bucket, end of. And what on earth do coffee pots symbolise then? I realise I must be incredibly dense, but I don,t geddit, sorry. It,s just a coffee pot with coffee in it. I seem to remember a similar discussion about Jack and Ennis,s hats and the fact that they were a different colour? Again all that meant to me was that they had different tastes in colour, I don,t see anything deep and meaningfull in it. I,m really dull and uninteresting arn,t I lol. ;D
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: souxi on February 19, 2008, 01:51:00 pm ---Well we,ll just have to agree to differ here, because even though I have read the link, I,m afraid my eyes DID roll, and I thought, well it doesn,t matter what I thought lol, but suffice to say, the only thing symbolic to me about Ennis dropping the bucket into the water is that he had a clumsy moment and dropped the bucket, end of. And what on earth do coffee pots symbolise then? I realise I must be incredibly dense, but I don,t geddit, sorry. It,s just a coffee pot with coffee in it. I seem to remember a similar discussion about Jack and Ennis,s hats and the fact that they were a different colour? Again all that meant to me was that they had different tastes in colour, I don,t see anything deep and meaningfull in it.
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Well, different people put different levels of faith in ideas about symbolism and metaphors in Brokeback Mountain. But you're talking to someone who puts a lot of faith in them. For several reasons: 1) As a writer and onetime literature major, I know that serious authors absolutely do weave symbolism and metaphors into their work, very deliberately. Annie Proulx is a very serious writer. There's no reason the same can't be true of movies, and Ang Lee is a serious director. 2) I've been discussing this stuff here and at imdb for two years, and IMO it all works really well and makes a lot of sense. There are just too many things that fit together neatly to dismiss it as someone's wild imagination, IMO. 3) Annie Proulx herself has talked about having thought about symbolism and imagery and mythical allusions while she was writing BBM. Front-Ranger and brokebackjack have posted elsewhere (can't remember where, sorry) about things she said along these lines when they went to see her in person.
For more discussion about the general topic of symbolism and metaphors in BBM, and whether or not they really exist, see this thread:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,14581.0.html
--- Quote --- I,m really dull and uninteresting arn,t I lol. ;D
--- End quote ---
Of course not! Everyone's different. :)
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