Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on February 19, 2008, 03:45:09 pm ---
But I do think things between them would have (or at least could have) gone better had Jack been able to take the chance Ennis offered him. The toll on their lifes and on their realtionship was not only caused by the times being separated but also by the fact they both didn't know what to make of it. They both didn't have the words to express themselves (and to be fair, for the most time neither the need for it).
Another thing I find interesting is Ennis's speech about Jack and Lureen adopting the girls, raining money from LD Newsome, herding sheep, etc. This thoughts didn't come from nothing. He said those things sarcastically to Jack because he was angry. But why did he exactly say these words? Why mentioning his girls? I think his choice of words shows two things: Ennis wished just as much as Jack for things to be different; he must have given their situation some thoughts (which is already proven by the questions he asked which started the conversation) and maybe even allowed himself some weird daydreams from time to time. Second, even in his wildest dreams it never occurred to him to abandon his daughters. Even the mere thought of moving to Texas (as absurd as it was to him) involved his girls also being in Texas.
--- End quote ---
Hi Chrissi,
I'm not sure I understand what chance Ennis was really offering Jack. Sure, it was a chance to talk, but in terms of offering a new solution or idea to the way their relationship was organized... I don't think Ennis was offering much of a chance.
I think what you note here about Ennis's sarcastic remarks here is very good. I think the metaphors he uses and the bizarre-hypothetical scenario he describes do reveal something about Ennis's own longings and frustrations about being separated from Jack.
Sandy:
I don't think he would have moved to Texas either. That course of action would just not sit well with my understanding of Ennis. I think that, even if Jack said he was going to move to the next town, Ennis would struggle to get up the courage to see him in the local pub once a month. If only we could have seen what the next twenty years would have brought.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: atz75 on February 19, 2008, 03:58:32 pm ---Hi Chrissi,
I'm not sure I understand what chance Ennis was really offering Jack. Sure, it was a chance to talk, but in terms of offering a new solution or idea to the way their relationship was organized... I don't think Ennis was offering much of a chance.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. This is not what I meant to indicate. I meant first and foremost the chance to be honest to each other, honest in the sense of open. A chance to grow from the "Ain't queer - Me neither" pretending to "Sometimes I miss you so much" earlier than they did. I also don't mean some lovey-dovey confessions (urgh, alone the thought ... ::)), but some kind of mutual acknowlegment how difficult, frustrating and sh*tty the situation is. I think this alone would have helped.
In this scene, Ennis must have gotten the impression life is fine for Jack. All that misses to be perfect for Jack would be Ennis nearer to him to see him more often.
--- Quote ---I think what you note here about Ennis's sarcastic remarks here is very good.
--- End quote ---
Thank you :)
--- Quote ---I think the metaphors he uses and the bizarre-hypothetical scenario he describes do reveal something about Ennis's own longings and frustrations about being separated from Jack.
--- End quote ---
Yup. I always believed Ennis longs for them to be together permanently just as much as Jack did. And I think Jack was very wrong in the lake scene argument when he said "But you didn't want it" (the sweet life) to Ennis. Ennis wanted it just as much. But he couldn't for the life of him figure out how, and also wasn't able to acknowledge it to Jack.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on February 19, 2008, 04:43:46 pm ---
Yup. I always believed Ennis longs for them to be together permanently just as much as Jack did. And I think Jack was very wrong in the lake scene argument when he said "But you didn't want it" (the sweet life) to Ennis. Ennis wanted it just as much. But he couldn't for the life of him figure out how, and also wasn't able to acknowledge it to Jack.
--- End quote ---
I agree... I also think Jack is wrong in saying that Ennis "didn't want it." But, I think Ennis offers Jack very few clues over the years that he, in fact, does want it. We, as outside spectators (more objective) have a better chance at analyzing Ennis's desires about that than Jack does (it seems to me). I also think Jack is trying to be a little mean. I think the "you didn't want it" is equivalent to some of the mean things Ennis says like "boys like you...", etc. In a sense, they're both lashing out.
One question... in the story isn't the line "you wouldn't do it"... as opposed to "you didn't want it" in the film? I'm at work and I don't have my story in front of me. So, correct me if I'm wrong. But, those two phrases seem very, very different (and may be a pretty significant alteration from story to screenplay).
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: atz75 on February 19, 2008, 04:58:04 pm ---
One question... in the story isn't the line "you wouldn't do it"... as opposed to "you didn't want it" in the film? I'm at work and I don't have my story in front of me. So, correct me if I'm wrong. But, those two phrases seem very, very different (and may be a pretty significant alteration from story to screenplay).
--- End quote ---
Little OT detour here (maybe we should make the lake scene also its own TOTW):
The line in the screenplay (STS book) is also "You wouldn't do it, Ennis", exactly the same as in the SS. But in the movie, it's "But you didn't want it, Ennis". I remember stumbling over this line from my first viewing on. I immediately thought 'You're wrong about this, Jack.' and still think it every time I see it.
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