Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
TOTW 09/08: Were Ennis and Jack particularly bad fathers?
Marge_Innavera:
But a possible saving remnant was that Junior, Jenny and Bobby did not grow up with baggage left by abusive fathers to deal with.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on March 22, 2008, 01:17:05 pm ---But a possible saving remnant was that Junior, Jenny and Bobby did not grow up with baggage left by abusive fathers to deal with.
--- End quote ---
No, but they probably grew up with baggage left over by abandonment by fathers, absent fathers and tense home lives. Bobby would have grown up with his father obviously a hanger-on in the home, what with Lureen's father lording it over him and Lureen, up until Jack took his household back from him. But by then, the damage was done, Bobby was already used to his father being 2nd fiddle, and the lack of intimacy between the parents probably wasn't lost on him either. Lureen was probably pretty testy about it and took it out on Jack in various subtle ways. Plus Jack traveled for his job, who knows how long or often he was away from home? Ennis' impact on his girls I've already mentioned.
Marge_Innavera:
That doesn't alter what I just posted. Breaking the cycle of abuse isn't on a par with being a better housekeeper or more handy around the house than the parents or grandparents were. It's a significant change from one generation to another.
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Marge_Innavera on March 22, 2008, 02:55:59 pm ---That doesn't alter what I just posted. Breaking the cycle of abuse isn't on a par with being a better housekeeper or more handy around the house than the parents or grandparents were. It's a significant change from one generation to another.
--- End quote ---
It isn't a matter of losing out on having a better housekeeper or handy person around the house. Children can have serious issues later in life with abandonment and absent parents, whether physically absent or emotionally absent. They have difficulty having normal relationships with other people because they are insecure or they are distant with their partners because this is what they learned as children is normal. Men and women allow themselves to be used and abused and you hear the excuse "but they love me' or 'it's better than being alone'. Some will accept any treatment rather than be abandoned. Others can become abusers or users themselves, seeing no reason to become close or commit emotionally to another person because they have seen the advantages of staying aloof and keeping their distance rather than risk the pain and trauma of being close to someone who doesn't return the feelings.
While I agree that all of this is better than being physically and verbally abused, I daresay it borders on emotional abuse at worst or negligence at best and the ramifications can be serious and insidious and long-term.
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on March 22, 2008, 03:13:05 pm ---While I agree that all of this is better than being physically and verbally abused, I daresay it borders on emotional abuse at worst or negligence at best and the ramifications can be serious and insidious and long-term.
--- End quote ---
In that case, we're going to just have to disagree about what "abuse" is. IMO, Ennis in particular has done a far better job as a father than his own father did; and there's just so much you can expect of people when they go into family life with their own baggage.
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