Author Topic: Texas Polygamy Sect  (Read 30216 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2008, 06:53:08 pm »
I think the people from the compound chose that area because it is a small town with a small police force. Part of it was (IMO) that the police were a bit intimidated...And I believe the police was hesitant to get involved too much because they knew people would criticize them no matter which way they went. They are damned either way.

You might be on to something there, Jess. I wonder what the population of El Dorado is compared to the (best estimate) population of the ranch? How big--or small--is the local law enforcement agency?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2008, 07:24:40 pm »
Kaiser, in this case I'm not so sure this is an "assault on human rights". Incompetence on the part of the locals, most definitely, but when I consider what was apparently happening inside the cult's compound, I have to wonder just what took the local authorities so long to act.

It appears that the facts are:

1) underage girls were either brainwashed or coerced into marrying much older men,
2) underage boys were being expelled and abandoned as they entered mid puberty,
3) there was a rather large armed presence around the compound, suggesting an armed camp.

I recognize that the cult's male leadership and the cooperative mothers of the children should have their day in court, and I await their testimony as to why they created and allowed such a situation to develop.

I am also interested in why local Schleicher County authorities allowed this situation to continue as long as it did. That would mean hearings at the County commissioners court, maybe a complaint needs to be filed. Hmm?

We cannot dispute your good points here at the moment, but my point is that such suspicions do not elevate to a level where an ENTIRE communmity of children are, without any discussion, whisked away from parents. Similar damages to kids (brainwashing, abandoment, under nourishing, etc) are sadly somewhat commonplace in ghettos for example, but have you ever heard of the CPS rounding up those neighborhoods? This is a frightful moment.

Regarding the cops, that seems to underscore the bizarreness of the action. They could have been, over time, doing their due dilignece to ensure the compound was safe. But rather than the periodic checks that should have been done, they swooped in like the green berets.

This is like seizing one's bank assets and showing up at one's door and getting arrested for tax evasion. that simply does not happen prior to MANY notices and inspections prove fruitless. The drastic measures taken against the children seem more political than proper to me.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2008, 07:31:22 pm »
How is it that many muslims have 4 wives, and some as here in Texas can not have more than one wife ??
..........

Don't get angry at me ! This is a good question !

Offline Artiste

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2008, 07:50:45 pm »
Same law for muslims having many wives... there ??

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2008, 09:31:10 pm »
yes, if they married more than once they would be in trouble too.

Of course nobody, whether Muslim or Fundamentalist Mormon, can legally contract more than one marriage at a time here. No jurisdiction would issue a marriage license to someone who already had a license issued in that jurisdiction. If somebody contracted several marriages in several jurisdictions, he would be guilty of bigamy.

Actually, I wonder whether any of the guys on that ranch were legally married even to their first wife, or senior wife, or whatever they call them.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2008, 09:34:32 pm »
You say:
   yes, if they married more than once they would be in trouble too.  
............

May I doubt they would be in trouble since most or many muslims have 4 wives same time... and,
because this Texas Polygamy lasted too long, the muslim ones would not be of interest to Texans nor the law makers or police enforcers !!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2008, 09:36:41 pm »
It's very telling that polygamy exists in many parts of the USA, with many religions !! And no one does anything... to stop it !!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2008, 10:09:55 pm »
If you get out of such cult group if that is possible safely, you would be damned to be in hell !!

So what is the difference with that and being as muslim which you can NOT get out of neither ??

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2008, 11:35:25 pm »
We cannot dispute your good points here at the moment, but my point is that such suspicions do not elevate to a level where an ENTIRE communmity of children are, without any discussion, whisked away from parents. Similar damages to kids (brainwashing, abandoment, under nourishing, etc) are sadly somewhat commonplace in ghettos for example, but have you ever heard of the CPS rounding up those neighborhoods? This is a frightful moment.

Regarding the cops, that seems to underscore the bizarreness of the action. They could have been, over time, doing their due dilignece to ensure the compound was safe. But rather than the periodic checks that should have been done, they swooped in like the green berets.

This is like seizing one's bank assets and showing up at one's door and getting arrested for tax evasion. that simply does not happen prior to MANY notices and inspections prove fruitless. The drastic measures taken against the children seem more political than proper to me.

Your point is well taken and I also am very suspicious of precipitate governmental interventions, whether at the local, state, or most especially at the federal level. You are also correct in cautioning against a rush to judgement. However, the nature of this compound and the armed guards around the compound cause deep suspicion on my part that something is rotten therein.

Because the rights of the accused are safeguarded, the cult will have its day in court. And in the fullness of time we will see if the authorities overreacted.

lets bear in mind that:
 
1)  Amendment # 1 to the Constitution  "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" , and Amendment # 4 " the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures."

is balanced with,

2) Amendment # 14  "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdictions the equal protection under the laws." 

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Texas Polygamy Sect
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2008, 12:18:23 pm »
I have a feeling that the notion of polygamy (whether mormon, amish, muslim or just for one's lifestyle choice) is going to become yet another legal/social issue that will ride on the tails of gay marriage. And, the polygamists will have a good point....if marriage can be changed to include male/male or female/female marriages, why not male/female/female?