Why are the poor, poor?

[Kelda]

I think this is spot on.

The original thesis by the author was as sad commentary on the human condition. He suggests that six bee stings (many problems) just go unattended to by people because it is just too hard to deal with more than one bee sting. I wonder if the men fighting at D Day felt that way? Clearly not. Or the astronaust in apollo 13? Don't think so. Or any of the millions of poor kids who make it big. Probably not.

I find the thesis to be yet another attempt to excuse behavior that has led to unproductive lives. A previous poster indicated a suspicion about commentators on poverty if they have never been poor; excellent point. But, the other side to that coin is how many more of us HAVE been poor (as the poster indicated...unable to pay for college, not knowing where the next day's food or housing would come from, etc) and pulled up the boot straps and dealt with all six bee stings.

Some people are weak and incapable of dealing with one bee sting, much less six, agreed. But the safety net that was put in place to help the truly incapable has become a hammock for millions of folks who just find it easier to run to ER for the bee stings than apply some remedy on their own.

Yes but not everyone who is poor or on welfare are there cos they can't be arsed. Yes many are, but many are not. They try to fight but they just cant get out. It happens.

[brokeplex]

And God forbid we should do anything to help keep you from getting pregnant, other than to tell you to not have sex, which you won't listen to anyway because people have been ignoring that advice since the beginning of time. ...

unless I misread the law of the land and in the various states, a woman's body is her own, it belongs to no one else, no one has claim on it, even the (baby/fetus/embryo) within. so, then why should anyone feel compelled to provide anything to keep that woman from "getting pregnant". Wouldn't that violate the her autonomy?

[brokeplex]

Yes but not everyone who is poor or on welfare are there cos they can't be arsed. Yes many are, but many are not. They try to fight but they just cant get out. It happens.

"arsed"?

[Jeff Wrangler]

unless I misread the law of the land and in the various states, a woman's body is her own, it belongs to no one else, no one has claim on it, even the (baby/fetus/embryo) within. so, then why should anyone feel compelled to provide anything to keep that woman from "getting pregnant". Wouldn't that violate the her autonomy?

Did you accidentally miss the "help," or was that deliberate?

[brokeplex]

Did you accidentally miss the "help," or was that deliberate?

it was an accident:  I can rewrite that with "help" included.

not that I see it make any difference, it still amounts to the same concept. if the woman in question has autonomy then she is the one who is responsible for any "help" in preventing pregnancies, not the tax payers.

private organizations, charities, churches, "helpful" individuals are another matter. more power to the private charities and religious organizations which voluntarily use their funds to advance their favorite social cause. I simply object to my tax dollars being extorted from me, and used in order to rectify someone else's private decisions made within the context of their own autonomy. 

[Jeff Wrangler]

"arsed"?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/arsed

According to Wiktionary, vulgar (sorry, Kelda) U.K. slang for bothered, as in "can't be bothered" to do something.

[Jeff Wrangler]

it was an accident:  I can rewrite that with "help" included.

not that I see it make any difference, it still amounts to the same concept. if the woman in question has autonomy then she is the one who is responsible for any "help" in preventing pregnancies, not the tax payers.

private organizations, charities, churches, "helpful" individuals are another matter. more power to the private charities and religious organizations which voluntarily use their funds to advance their favorite social cause. I simply object to my tax dollars being extorted from me, and used in order to rectify someone else's private decisions made within the context of their own autonomy. 

Go back and re-read what I wrote again. I said, "God forbid we should do anything to help keep you from getting pregnant." I said nothing about abortion, and that's clearly what you are implying when you write about rectifying someone else's private decision. Abortion is locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen. I was making an I-thought-clever swipe at government programs that only countenance counseling abstinence, not discussion of any other practical means of preventing pregnancy. I guess I was being too obscure. I apologize for that.

[brokeplex]

According to Wiktionary, vulgar (sorry, Kelda) U.K. slang for bothered, as in "can't be bothered" to do something.

thanks for looking! I'll use that over supper tonight when DL inevitably will be so "arsed" he will forget to pick up the shrimp on the way home whch I need in order to make the dish he will want to eat. 

[oilgun]

Interesting discussion but it seems to be focused on the so-called "welfare-bums".  There will always be a certain percentage of the population that will take advantage of the safety net.  I don't think it involves that much money in the grand scheme of things.  Especially when you consider how much the the Iraq business plan has been costing tax-payers.  Sorry I couldn't resist.  People get all up in arms when some poor shmuck is able to wrangle a couple of hundred extra bucks a month from the system while white-collars & politicians steal billions and they are practically hailed as heros.

Anyway, let's forget about the Welfare abusers, what about the working poor?  Those who work their asses off at jobs that don't pay a living wage?  How obscene is that?  I know!  Let's lower or better yet, do away with the miinimum wage! 

[Kelda]

According to Wiktionary, vulgar (sorry, Kelda) U.K. slang for bothered, as in "can't be bothered" to do something.

yup arsed = bothered its just a colloquialism...

But its used in the negative - ie

I can't be arsed but not I can be arsed. Or arsed on its own!

A lesson in Uk slang for you!