Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: Daphne7661 on July 29, 2006, 12:13:19 am ---Hey Diane,
I am glad you continued to listen for the "I Love You" in the shirt/closet scene.
Also, I just want to say that I stand by my original post of what is said in TS2. Basically, Ennis doesn't say anything. It's all Jack.
Ennis approaches the tent and kneels down in front of Jack.
Jack puts his hand on Ennis' arm and leans into him.
Ennis, nervous, of course, kind of quickly leans into Jack, maybe to kiss him. He is kind of interrupted because Jack takes his hat out of his hands. This somewhat disarms Ennis.
Jack then cups Ennis' face/cheek in his hand and turns those baby blues on Ennis (who could resist him at this point, my goodness) and says, "C'mere".
Ennis doesn't move much and is a bit resistant (nervous) to kiss Jack, so Jack says, "C'mon"
They kiss.
They release.
I think Jack feels a tad guilty for having "pushed" Ennis into kissing him (even though he didn't and Ennis really wanted to anyway, but was just nervous).
So, Jack hangs his head a bit and says, "I'm sorry" (sorry for what he perceives as having "pushed" Ennis too quickly perhaps).
Jack then says, "It's all right. It's all right. Lie Back. C'mon."
Ennis says nothing in this scene. I truly, truly believe that.
Of course, we all see and hear different things, but take what I wrote and watch it again.
I don't trust those subtitles at all. There are many other parts where they are wrong.
--- End quote ---
What I here after "c' mon" is "s 'alright" three times. It does look like Ennis says "Oh god" when he is on his back but you can't hear it. None of this is pivotial to the story, just icing on the cake.
dly64:
--- Quote from: jpwagoneer1964 on July 29, 2006, 01:42:02 am ---What I here after "c' mon" is "s 'alright" three times. It do look like Ennis says "Oh god" when he is on his back but you can't here it.None of this is pivotial to the story, just icing on the cake.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. I just have to laugh. You put ten different people in a room. Each person hears ten different things and interprets the same scene in ten different ways. Personally, I find that incredibly humorous and enormously fun! Shoot, if we all believed and heard the same thing, there wouldn't even be a BetterMost forum! ;)
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: dly64 on July 28, 2006, 08:09:30 pm ---Of course, this is one of those issues right along with TS2: is it ...?
Jack: "It's all right ...."
Ennis: "I'm sorry."
Jack: "It's all right .."
(which, IMO, is what is said ... but whoa! Is that a debate!)
--- End quote ---
When the movie was in the theatres, I was certain that Ennis didn't say anything. But the very first time I saw the DVD, Ennis saying "I'm sorry" was so clear it was startling.
And it isn't all that surprising that his lips don't move. One of the flaws of the movie is the editing, which wasn't helped by having to change editors during the process.
2robots4u:
Regarding Marge's comment about editing: that's been the main problem with the movie from the beginning. Somewhere in one of these postings, it is mentioned that Lee's attention to detail was impeccable. I don't know anything about Lee so I will go along with that, except, all the errors that occur...Alma, Jr. mike wire visible, wrong model truck for the year, change of hands during Jack's bull ride, log disappearance when Agurrie rides up to Jack, etc, etc. In the scene where Ennis comments that his dad throught all rodeo cowboys were fuckups, Jack replies "The hell they are" and jumps up to do his bull-ride imitation with the whiskey bottle in his left hand. Camera shift to Ennis, then back to Jack who now has his hat in the same hand (the bottle is still there) and he falls into whatever it is that clatters, and the camera is back to Ennis who is laughing and comments that maybe his dad was right. When the camera goes back to Jack his hat is rolling on the ground directly next to his head..as if it had just fallen off his head...and the hand, still holding the whiskey bottle, is down around his waist area. Obviously, this scene is a compilation of several takes, BUT, editing is seriously flawed. Is this the fault of editors who pieced it together, or the fault of Lee for not paying attention to these errors and correcting them. I believe I read that there were something like 125 "mistakes" in the movie. That being the case, I cannot agree with Lee's attention to detail as "impeccable".
Regarding the comment that Ennis's lips didn't move when he said "I'm sorry": this is attributed to the fact that Ennis mutters most of the time, barely moving his lips. But most probably, in an intimate situation such as tis one, full facial muscle control is not usually employed. His physical closeness to Jack requires low volumn, therefore, little lip movement. Do your best imitation of Ennis and say "I'm sorry" and I think you'll see what I mean.
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: [email protected] on July 30, 2006, 03:07:38 pm ---Regarding Marge's comment about editing: that's been the main problem with the movie from the beginning. Somewhere in one of these postings, it is mentioned that Lee's attention to detail was impeccable. I don't know anything about Lee so I will go along with that, except, all the errors that occur...Alma, Jr. mike wire visible, wrong model truck for the year, change of hands during Jack's bull ride, log disappearance when Agurrie rides up to Jack, etc, etc. In the scene where Ennis comments that his dad throught all rodeo cowboys were fuckups, Jack replies "The hell they are" and jumps up to do his bull-ride imitation with the whiskey bottle in his left hand. Camera shift to Ennis, then back to Jack who now has his hat in the same hand (the bottle is still there) and he falls into whatever it is that clatters, and the camera is back to Ennis who is laughing and comments that maybe his dad was right. When the camera goes back to Jack his hat is rolling on the ground directly next to his head..as if it had just fallen off his head...and the hand, still holding the whiskey bottle, is down around his waist area. Obviously, this scene is a compilation of several takes, BUT, editing is seriously flawed. Is this the fault of editors who pieced it together, or the fault of Lee for not paying attention to these errors and correcting them. I believe I read that there were something like 125 "mistakes" in the movie. That being the case, I cannot agree with Lee's attention to detail as "impeccable".
Regarding the comment that Ennis's lips didn't move when he said "I'm sorry": this is attributed to the fact that Ennis mutters most of the time, barely moving his lips. But most probably, in an intimate situation such as tis one, full facial muscle control is not usually employed. His physical closeness to Jack requires low volumn, therefore, little lip movement. Do your best imitation of Ennis and say "I'm sorry" and I think you'll see what I mean.
--- End quote ---
The editing is choppy at some points but no worse than a lot of movies.
As for SNIT I see and hear Jack say "s'alright" three times, it does sound a bit like I'm sorry but sound the same each time.
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