The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Tale of a 19th-century abortion provider
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Buffymon on June 08, 2009, 10:01:24 am ---I did read the post, Milo. Perhaps I misunderstood it. This was what I read and responded to
"Riiiiiight. And people use the company cell phone only for business calls. In spirit I agree. In practice, things are quite different."
which was your reply to Delalluvia saying: "Child support isn't about funding a mother's lifestyle, it's about supporting a child."
--- End quote ---
The reality is that the money goes to both mother AND child. Its not like you can separate the two fiscally. Even if there were some magical way to ensure that the money was spent directly only on things that the child needs, there is still the issue of the man being required to fund a project in which he wanted no participation.
Mandy21:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 08, 2009, 12:14:11 am ---Agreed. But nobody can make a woman carry a child to term. She has a choice, and is the only person who can make it. She holds the cards.
--- End quote ---
Milo, what if the couple is in an abusive relationship; i.e., violence, drugs, gangs, etc. I read all the time here in the St. Louis area crime section of the paper about women who are thrown down stairs, beaten with pipes, strangled until they give in to the abortion, etc., by the baby's father. At that point, it becomes the MAN holding the cards, unfortunately. I realize it's not the norm, but it does indeed happen -- way too often.
serious crayons:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 08, 2009, 02:24:17 pm ---there is still the issue of the man being required to fund a project in which he wanted no participation.
--- End quote ---
Nope. Again, he participated in "launching" the project, so to speak, and now is financially responsible for carrying it through.
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 07, 2009, 05:39:31 pm ---And likewise a woman has to get used to the idea that if she has sex with a man, she may get pregnant.
--- End quote ---
Of course.
--- Quote ---What if the man want to get married, but she does not? Is he still liable for child support?
--- End quote ---
Sure. I don't see what marital plans have to do with it.
--- Quote ---And I still say that if the woman retains the right to carry to term, but the man wants an abortion, the woman should shoulder the responsibility for raising the child. She is, after all, making a unilateral decision to become a parent...in spite of the father's wishes.
--- End quote ---
Not unilaterally. The father made a decision earlier on that he was open to the possibility of becoming a parent.
FWIW, despite my seemingly inflexible views on this, I actually do have considerable sympathy for men in this situation, one of whom happens to be my brother. He became a father 17 years ago. The mother is someone he was dating very casually, was getting close to 40, heard the biological clock ticking, and wanted a child. My bro and the woman haven't had a romantic relationship since, but to everybody's credit, they get along pretty well. My brother has been a very responsible father, both financially and emotionally. Custody is not equally shared, so the mom shouldered far more of the day-to-day child-raising burden, but my niece has her own bedroom at my brother's house and they spend a lot of time together. At one point, he even moved from one state to another so he would be in the same city she is. Others in my family, including my late parents and even my widowed stepmother, have considered her as much a grandchild as they do my sons. My niece appears extremely well-adjusted and mentally healthy. She is friendly, popular, well-behaved, active in her church youth group, successful in school. And although fatherhood was not in my brother's plans initially, and he might not have been thrilled with the idea at first, I am certain he has never regretted it.
milomorris:
--- Quote from: Mandy21 on June 08, 2009, 03:03:33 pm ---Milo, what if the couple is in an abusive relationship; i.e., violence, drugs, gangs, etc. I read all the time here in the St. Louis area crime section of the paper about women who are thrown down stairs, beaten with pipes, strangled until they give in to the abortion, etc., by the baby's father. At that point, it becomes the MAN holding the cards, unfortunately. I realize it's not the norm, but it does indeed happen -- way too often.
--- End quote ---
Oh, absolutely!! That guy should go to jail. And I wouldn't call the ACLU if he "lost his balance" on the way to the police car.
Monika:
--- Quote from: milomorris on June 08, 2009, 02:24:17 pm ---The reality is that the money goes to both mother AND child. Its not like you can separate the two fiscally. Even if there were some magical way to ensure that the money was spent directly only on things that the child needs, there is still the issue of the man being required to fund a project in which he wanted no participation.
--- End quote ---
It´s correct that the money does go to both, since the mother is the caretaker. But I think it´s rarely the case that she gets so much that she spend it on her own. The baby has to be fed, get new dypers etc. Most mothers I know, hardly can afford to spend the money on herself so therfore I think the money does go to the child.
Regarding the father. If the man doesn´t want to pay, then the society has to because the child has the right to be provided for. I guess we´ll just have to agree to disagree where that money should come from.
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