Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
Alma's feelings for Ennis
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: mvansand76 on October 02, 2006, 08:14:36 am ---I do believe Alma loved Ennis very much, mostly because he was so emotionally unavailable (same reason why Cassie fell in love I guess, he was such an enigma and so manly and the combination can be really attractive) and she really hung on to the signs of affection from Ennis through the years. I think, though, as soon as she had been directly confronted with Ennis and where Ennis' heart really lay, she put up a barrier and emotionally distanced herself from him to avoid being hurt.
Do I make sense? ;)
--- End quote ---
You make completetly sense, I just tend to have another opinion ;D I don't see her as totally in love with Ennis from the beginning on.
--- Quote from: latjoreme on October 02, 2006, 10:05:40 am ---As for Alma's feelings while they were still married, I think she loved Ennis. But I don't think the love was particularly passionate, because she just wasn't a passionate person. Nor did she really expect passion from him. As Chrissi says, her expectations from life were pretty simple: husband, kids, place in town she can fix up real nice. Once she had those things, she didn't look much beyond them. That's why she didn't realize anything was amiss with Ennis until she saw how different he was with Jack.
--- End quote ---
Maybe that's just what she was: a not very passionate person. Guess she hadn't very passionate feelings about Monroe either. But we don't know.
--- Quote from: nakymaton on October 02, 2006, 12:55:19 pm ---In the movie, Alma looks pretty infatuated with Ennis at first -- at the wedding, and sledding, and at the drive-in. She's so young, though, and it seems like she doesn't know Ennis very well... though maybe nobody except Jack knows Ennis very well.
--- End quote ---
Yes, she's somehow sweet and nice, also after 4 years of marriage, when Ennis is waiting for Jack. But I still got the feeling she wasn't particulary infatuated with Ennis as a person, but with her husband. This fits with your remark that she didn't know him very well: had she been totally into Ennis, had he been her once-in-a-lifetime-love, she would have noticed that something is pretty wrong before she saw them; she would have gone crazy with his holding back, with his inaccessibility.
Alma's expression at Thanksgiving:
--- Quote from: goadra on October 02, 2006, 08:30:27 am ---Her half-smile says she at least half-fondly remembers those times (even though most / all happened after the reunion), likes seeing the girls enjoy their father’s presence, but her smile is weighted down by everything that’s happened.
--- End quote ---
Wow, a complete different reading from what I think about her in this scene. I think she is resentful. I think her smile to be forced, fitting perfectly into the tension. I got the feeling she does not like Ennis to be with her (new) family at her new home (pretty nicely fixed up, btw), with her new husband. She invited him only for the sake of their children.
Both, her daughter (Junior) and Ennis give uncertain looks to her, as if looking for clues about her mood. Looking as if they want to make sure they don't say anything wrong, anything that could make her sad/angry.
But fernly has some good points, too. It's only natural to have mixed feelings.
--- Quote from: latjoreme on October 02, 2006, 01:11:57 pm ---I don't know if she's deliberately trying to hurt Ennis -- in the movie she says it kind of hesitantly, and in the story she says it under her breath -- but tell you what, I've never quite understood what the deal is with Ennis' income and Alma's frustration over it. He's not in a very lucrative field, he quits jobs to be with Jack, and she says they're behind on the bills. On the other hand, he seems responsible and hard working; it's not like he's drinking up his paychecks while the girls go hungry. They have two incomes. So why are they so broke?
--- End quote ---
In the story, they aren't so broke with both of them working. "She saw she'd always have to work to keep ahead of the bills Looks to me that they managed to come around with two wages.
But if she'd have another baby, they'd have additional costs and less income. At least for a while she'd have to stop working.
--- Quote ---Why does Alma hold Ennis so responsible for their money problems (beyond it just being the way people thought about marital roles in those days, I mean)?
--- End quote ---
It's part of the package she wanted, what includes traditional role allocation.
While I was typing, Mikaela's reply came in. But this post is long enough and I'll send it just as it is, before reading Mikaela' post.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: Penthesilea on October 02, 2006, 07:26:24 am ---Marrying, raising children, leading a family life was what Alma was supposed to do. Maybe it was not her big dream of life, but I think Alma was not raised to have big dreams (like Ennis - and Jack for that matter, but he had them anyhow).
Did Alma have dreams other than having a husband and children when she was a teenager, before she married Ennis? I don't think so.
I think she was successfully trained to want this (the family life) and actually DID want it.
--- End quote ---
Heya,
This is a great thread. As upsetting as Alma is as an obstacle to Jack and Ennis's relationship, I feel tremendously sorry for her. I love that you used the word "trained" in relation to Alma's aspirations in life because that exactly how she seems to play her role. She seems very tied to convention (not surprisingly, I guess due to her supposed upbringing) and I'm sure this is why she blames Ennis for the money problems. I also think the "money problem" issue is a convenient cover for the underlying and more major problem in their marriage. It's easier to argue over money and they never argue over Ennis's sexuality until long after the divorce. So, that scene when they're in bed and Alma brings up the topic of bills, this is really a ploy to get Ennis off of her. The subtext is that she no longer wants to have sex with him... and the easiest way to accomplish this is to bring up the money issue. He's insulting her by implying that sex with her is only for babies and she insults him back with the money issue. The money issue is contentious but much less unpleasant (does that even make sense?) than actually bringing the issue of Ennis's sexuality up in that specific case. So, I just think the money is a cover for the real argument.
As much as I feel sorry for Alma she also irritates me with her "doormat" demeanor through much of the film. The fact that she puts up with a marriage like that for so long is very sad to me (but a kind of sad that makes me very frustrated at her)... Moreover, the fact that she would put up with sexual demands that were completely not her idea and very uncomfortable for her makes me sad too and angry that she doesn't stand up for herself. And when she does stand up for herself a large portion of homophobia is revealed (in the kitchen argument, obviously).
Grrr. Alma... a very frustrating character for me indeed.
:-\
jpwagoneer1964:
I think Alma really did love Ennis and was certianly part of the reason she stayed so long as well has her daughters. She did recognize that Ennis was a good man.
Penthesilea:
--- Quote from: atz75 on October 02, 2006, 11:20:06 pm ---I also think the "money problem" issue is a convenient cover for the underlying and more major problem in their marriage. It's easier to argue over money and they never argue over Ennis's sexuality until long after the divorce. So, that scene when they're in bed and Alma brings up the topic of bills, this is really a ploy to get Ennis off of her. The subtext is that she no longer wants to have sex with him... and the easiest way to accomplish this is to bring up the money issue. He's insulting her by implying that sex with her is only for babies and she insults him back with the money issue. The money issue is contentious but much less unpleasant (does that even make sense?) than actually bringing the issue of Ennis's sexuality up in that specific case. So, I just think the money is a cover for the real argument.
--- End quote ---
(emphasis by me)
I never looked at this scene this way. The thought that Alma didn't want no more sex with Ennis in genreal, and that her remark was a ploy to get Ennis off of her, never occurred to me.
Hmmm. This may be true for the movie, although my guts say no. I'll think more about it.
But for the story, I don't think your pov is right. The story says clearly, "Alma asked Ennis to use rubbers because she dreaded another pregnancy." The sentence before this one was about her knowing she'd always have to work to keep ahead of the bills.
So I think in the story it was not a ploy, but dreading a pregnancy was the real reason for her comment.
Yet you are right that it is more easy to fret about money issues than about their sex life, respectively Ennis's sexual orientation. Alma thought - not said - what Ennis likes to do doesn't make too many babies.
So in this scene we have both: her first remark was really because she wanted no more babies, but her next thought is about Ennis's sexualitiy. But she doesn't say it out loud, other than the money/pregnancy troubles, because the latter are easier to discuss.
--- Quote ---As much as I feel sorry for Alma she also irritates me with her "doormat" demeanor through much of the film. The fact that she puts up with a marriage like that for so long is very sad to me (but a kind of sad that makes me very frustrated at her)... Moreover, the fact that she would put up with sexual demands that were completely not her idea and very uncomfortable for her makes me sad too and angry that she doesn't stand up for herself. And when she does stand up for herself a large portion of homophobia is revealed (in the kitchen argument, obviously).
Grrr. Alma... a very frustrating character for me indeed.
:-\
--- End quote ---
I agree with all from the above paragraph. It's frustrating. But it is rooted in her (supposed) upbringing and said "training" of how a respectable woman should be and behave. Again, we look with our modern mental attitude on her. Maybe we should be more clement with her - she was just as molded by her time and location as Ennis was.
And in the end, she took the leap and divorced Ennis (even if it was only with Monroe as backup).
jpwagoneer1964:
--- Quote from: goadra on October 08, 2006, 09:02:49 pm ---
“Me and the girls worry about you being alone so much.” I was a little surprised she phrased it that way, her and the girls. Of course, even if she had said, “The girls worry...” the meaning would still have been “Me and the girls.”
--- End quote ---
I think Alma still had feelings for Ennis, otherwise she would not be upset anymore about the fishing trips. When I saw this scene in the trailers I thought that they were still married.
Since they were parents of the same children, she considered her and Ennis to still be family at some level.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version