The World Beyond BetterMost > Women Today
Woman decides full-time mothering isn't for her
Monika:
--- Quote from: milomorris on March 08, 2011, 08:30:20 pm ---Are you talking about equal pay for equal work, or somethingm else that I'm not understanding?
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I believe she means the work women do at home. Clean, wash etc
delalluvia:
--- Quote from: Buffymon on March 08, 2011, 09:08:50 pm --- I believe she means the work women do at home. Clean, wash etc
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Yep.
Brown Eyes:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on March 08, 2011, 08:24:38 pm ---Agree. The word selfish is so often cast at those who are child-free, but never back at parents because it's assumed parents are 'selfless'. As you pointed out, a great many are not, not really.
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Thanks Del. I think it really is an interesting way to look at things... to think of the ways that people decide to have children for selfish reasons and to satisfy their own ideas about how their lives should be... separate from any real consideration for the child. Like I said in my earlier post, I think a lot of it boils down to ego and a desire to have someone to take care of them when they're elderly.
My Mom is not subtle about putting pressure on me about my choice not to have kids (at least so far) and I'm 35 and a lesbian... so the odds are very slim really. I've never particularly enjoyed being around kids for extended amounts of time. Babysitting used to freak me out so I rarely did it at a teenager. And, in general children just make me nervous. I have no particular personal urge to have a kid. But, if I had a partner who really wanted a kid, or if she already had a kid... I would be willing to give raising a kid a try for the sake of the relationship. My desire to have a strong relationship with a partner is 100x stronger than any personal desire to have a child. I would not press the issue of kids myself in a relationship.
When my Mom talks about wanting grandkids... it kind of becomes clear to me that that's all about her desires to step into a "grandmother" role that she has pictured in her head. It's not about me and it's not about the hypothetical kid. So, it's a form of selfishness IMO... even if it's a relatively benevolent type of selfishness (the pressures it puts on me aside).
serious crayons:
I totally agree that "selfish" seems like the wrong word to describe people who don't want to have kids -- whatever their reasons. Even if those reasons have to do with keeping their own interests a top priority. Maybe they want to focus on their careers, maybe they want to come home from work and have time to themselves, maybe they want to be free to go where they want, when they want, unencumbered ... and so on. Those reasons are self-oriented, I guess, but I don't consider them "selfish" in the pejorative sense we usually use that word, meaning "greedy" and "uncharitable."
I think part of the problem is that our culture so frowns on placing a priority on one's own interests that there's no neutral word for that.
I'm speaking here of people who opt not to have kids. People who've already had kids and then decide they don't want them ... well, that becomes trickier. I don't know what the right word is to describe them -- it depends on their individual circumstances -- but they've certainly made a big mistake.
But I haven't read the original article yet. Are we talking about a mother who wants nothing to do with her kids? That's problematic. Or is this a mother who simply doesn't want live-in custody of them -- which is a totally different thing? I've written about mothers in the latter situation. Most of them make the decision for their kids' sake. Some regret it; some don't. But it's very hard on them because they're so harshly judged for something that fathers do all the time.
Marge_Innavera:
--- Quote from: delalluvia on March 08, 2011, 08:24:38 pm ---Agree. The word selfish is so often cast at those who are child-free, but never back at parents because it's assumed parents are 'selfless'. As you pointed out, a great many are not, not really.
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As someone who's childless by choice, I've concluded that some use 'I'm too selfish to be a good parent' because it ends the conversation right there. It plays into the notion that if someone doesn't have kids, it must be some kind of disfunction. After a few conversations where you field stinkbombs like "then how do you know you're a woman?" telling people what they want to hear can be a temptation.
And I agree with Katherine's comment that the selfishness can work both ways. Selfish people who want children, for whatever reasons they may want them, rarely if ever let their own selfishness stand in their way. If you're essentially selfish, then it's in character to make selfish decisions. Or to put it from the other perspective, 'I'd love to have children but I'm so selfish I'm making an unselfish decision' wouldn't exactly make sense.
--- Quote from: atz75 on March 08, 2011, 10:11:44 pm ---My Mom is not subtle about putting pressure on me about my choice not to have kids
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My mom used to ask me what if I found out later in life I'd make the wrong choice. (I'm in my 60s now so she hasn't asked that lately) The first few times I didn't have an answer but when I thought about it, I concluded that if I did regret it, at least I would be the only one who suffered the consequences. If it were reversed, having a child and then realizing you'd made a mistake could have a lot of other consequences.
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