The World Beyond BetterMost > Anything Goes
Same-Sex Marriage Issue in MA
BB Stacker:
My opinion only, but I think this is the same as how many blacks would like to be able drink from the same waterfountain as the whites. It's personal choice, but we're not allowed a choice.
Back in the day, they at least had their own waterfountain.
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: BB Stacker on April 26, 2006, 11:44:49 pm ---My opinion only, but I think this is the same as how many blacks would like to be able drink from the same waterfountain as the whites. It's personal choice, but we're not allowed a choice.
Back in the day, they at least had their own waterfountain.
--- End quote ---
Well said. Straight to the heart of the issue.
I'll add a little more though. I work with measurements and statistics quite a bit. The numbers mentioned here are vague with no basis to compare them. A fundamental of statistics is that they mean nothing in an of themselves. Here it is being suggested that very few GLBT people want to get married, but without qualification and controls applied to the data, the numbers are meaningless. For example, when it talks about the the Netherlands, it says between 2.6 and 6.3 percent of the country's gays and lesbians got married. That sounds very scientific but what does it mean? I suspect that what's happening here is they take a range number, say 9-11%, of the population as being GLBT (a common "guess"). If you then multiply the number of GLBT marriages to that range you get another number, like 2-6%. But is this in any way a reflection of the GLBT couples that get married, or would get married if they had the opportunity? Well no, it isn't.
You can't just throw a series of numbers in the air and imply they have meaning. Where is the "control group" of the percentage of hetersexuals that get married? Even in countries that have gay marriage, what part does society play in their desire to become married? Just because gay marriage is allowed doesn't mean that society is equally accepting, so how does this influence opportunity? Of course there are many factors that should be considered before statistics can be used in this way. I'm sorry people, the term for this sort of thing is "mental masturbation". A cheap thrill (for the individual) but it means nothing and cannot be used to conclude anything. Remember that 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot!
The worst thing about this is is that it completely misses the point: it doesn't matter if there is 1 or 100 million GLBT couples that would get married if they could, discrimination is discrimination no matter how many people are involved. I know that it is only recently that I have even considered it, but this has beem driven by my desire for the same legal/financial priveliges rather than a complelling need to "walk down the aisle".
Aussie Chris:
--- Quote from: BB Stacker on April 27, 2006, 12:44:04 am ---I'm sorry if I seem like a smartass, (I am) and I am not out to offend anyone, I'm really a very gentle and caring person.
Sometimes I have too many beans and too much whiskey and have to have a come to jesus meeting with myself, so please don't hold any comments I make against me, or if you do, hold them close to the bruise you put on my ass. ::)
--- End quote ---
No worries BB Stacker, I like beans and whiskey. Welcome to the discussion.
Aussie Chris:
Coincidentally, Australia is confronting this issue at the moment, albeit quietly. The federal government lead by the ever conservative and arrogant John Howard (or J-Ho as I like to call him), has stated repeatedly and defiantly that marriage is the institution for men and woman, and that the majority of Australians agree with this. I won't get into the layers of offense this conjours in me, but that aside, the other night there was a report that some states are trying to introduce civil-union legislation (like the United Kingdom), lead by a few progressive (and straight) politicians that see this issue for what it is: one of equality. Nevertheless the federal government is threatening to create legislation to prevent it, saying that this is just marriage by another name - well duh!
Reporter: Scott Bevan
MAXINE McKEW: Well, the milestones of our lives are measured around the key events - births, deaths and marriages. But for tens of thousands of Australian same-sex couples, marriage is still legally off-limits. As recently as two years ago, the Federal Government defined marriage as being something only a man and woman can enter into. But that is now being challenged. Moves at the State and Territory level would officially acknowledge gay and lesbian relationships. Tasmania established a registration scheme for same-sex couples and more recently, the ACT has been wanting to go one step further, introducing a Civil Unions Bill. But that's been left standing at the political altar for the moment, with the Federal Government saying the Territory's scheme is marriage by another name. Scott Bevan reports on the divide over saying "I do"...
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1622929.htm
--Chris - I edited b/c your topic link took me to a nice interview on dioxin levels in seafood :-) I think this is the one you meant? -L
Impish:
--- Quote ---The worst thing about this is is that it completely misses the point: it doesn't matter if there is 1 or 100 million GLBT couples that would get married if they could, discrimination is discrimination no matter how many people are involved.
--- End quote ---
Exactly! I'll add a point: after gay marriage becomes legal, the number of couples that marry will grow over the ensuing years. Anti-gay organizations want to propagate the myth that gay people are incapable of monogamy: it's part of the gays-are-sex-fiends stereotype. This thinking is wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to begin deconstructing it. I won't go into that here, except to say that the assumption that sex is bad is one example.
That's what makes gay marriage -- and Brokeback Mountain -- so scary to these bigots. If society recognizes that being gay is as much about love as it is about sex, the foundation of their heterocentrism comes crumbling down.
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